/k/ - Weapons

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Delayed Blowback (and other less common operation mechanisms) Strelok 10/19/2019 (Sat) 03:18:25 No.2045
For the past century or so, John Browning has ruled the roost when it comes to autoloading firearms. Just about every major rifle in use today is gas-piston operated, and just about every pistol in production uses some variant of the tilting-barrel action first found on the Hi-Power. This is of course for good reason--Browning's designs these particular two at any rate are simple and reliable, with a proven track record that any potential new meme technology wouldn't have. But they're also boring. Seeing minor variations of the same century-old principle again and again gets tremendously dull. There have been deviations--most notably the various delayed-blowback mechanisms out there, and Beretta's use of dropping-block and rotating-barrel pistols. But even these designs aren't particularly new. The rotating-barrel is yet another Browning patent from the 19th century. Both the dropping-block and roller-delayed blowback, the most common delayed blowback, are Wehrmarcht designs from the late 30s/40s. But it's better than nothing, right? What are some other snowflake designs you like, /k/?

This radial-delayed blowback from CMMG interests me, along with delayed-blowback in general. Rifle cartridges are too high-pressure to get good reliability from delayed blowback, but the lower pressure of pistol cartridges makes it an excellent candidate for SMGs. The radial design appears even simpler and lighter than other delayed-blowback offerings, while also having a lugged bolt. Only concern I'd have is possible increased wear on the backs of those bolt lugs.
>>2045
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=S3vH7LgvuL4
This is one of my favorites. I would love to make a repro, but it's open bolt so I'd need to do paperwork.

I have a roller delay design I'm working on that uses ball bearings instead of rollers. I might have a prototype by the end of the year. It's similer to the Heym SR30 system, but instead of locking on a shoulder, the balls sit at the bottom of a ramp.
>>2046
The clockwork gun is damn cool, yes, especially since part of the recoil impulse is directed downwards. You could make extremely compact SMGs with that design, even without the folding magwell and all that. I do think there would be legitimate reliability concerns with the mainspring, however. If you ever had to open up that casing in the field it's unlikely you could easily close it again.
>>2046
And I'm using a roller locked designs that has simple roller bearings instead of that HK-style roller that has a plate keeping it in place. My main concern though is that it might be a bit hard to find high quality yet cheap rollers, because the market is full with chink stuff. And I also have a hard time figuring out how to calculate the required dimensions for a roller.
Always like that stoner system found in the 63.
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We've got some animations of Textron's atrocity. It's even worse than I thought. I mean, are they doing it wrong on purpose? They literally had to just copy the Steyr ACR to make a compact rifle with lots of firepower that can't overheat, and call it a day. nstead they fucked it up in a most spectacular way.
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I'm starting to believe that a modern Lancaster could be an excellent backup gun. I'm thinking of a miniature one chambered for .357 Magnum with 8 barrels that is also cut for moonclips. The downside is that you couldn't set up the sights and the barrel cluster in such a way that you can aim at longer ranges regardless of the load. But then again, it would be a backup gun, and at 10 metres the different positions of the barrels wouldn't make a significant difference for our purposes. https://invidio.us/watch?v=WWGII108sOU https://invidio.us/watch?v=0QTeyPe0UGY A greater problem would be the price of the 8 barrels and the work required to set them up properly.
>>3457 >A greater problem would be the price of the 8 barrels and the work required to set them up properly. And the increased weight.
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>>3473 Well, all that steel would certainly have some weight, but on the other hand you wouldn't need a frame, therefore with 3" barrels the difference might not be that significant.
>>3486 I wouldn't know the numbers on how much the barrel adds vs the frame but I'd think it would be fairly large. It's also going to make it very front heavy in terms of how that weight is distributed.
>>3457 Looks like my concerns about the barrels not being aligned wasn't unfounded, and it is in fact a grave problem. https://invidio.us/watch?v=P4ULyMeh3bw
>>8565 Aligning multiple barrels is an absolute cunt of a job to do. Getting a side by side on target at 40 yards isn't fun.
Ive wondered before if using magnets would be viable in a rifle. Simply get two strong rectangular magnets and place them beside the barrel (you could even use a circular magnet around the barrel if space is an issue) and have two magnets on the bolt too. The bolt face would have to be quite large to have enough surface area to make a strong lockup. You wouldn't need a strong recoil spring at all, but would need a handle that levers back, like a G3 charging handle, to separate the magnets as they would be, as expected, hard to separate. I was pretty happy for myself for thinking of this idea until about 2 months ago I found out that magnets actually stop being magnetic at a certain temperature. Steel or iron magets can only really withstand temps of up to 500F, and obviously that is way too low to be used on anything other than a bolt action or maybe a .22lr rifle or something like that. Even if heat didnt pose a problem the magnets being too brittle probably would.
>>8717 Even if we set aside the durability and temperature problems of magnets, I see several practical issues with this. Using magnets like this would in practical terms be very similar to a straight-blowback system (just with magnets instead of a spring), which means you're going to run into the same pitfalls that system has. For anything larger than 9x19, the bolt either needs to be obnoxiously heavy or the spring (magnet in this case) needs to be obnoxiously strong. The former case leads to a heavy gun and stronger felt recoil due to the large reciprocating mass. The latter makes charging the gun and dealing with malfunctions more difficult. The all-or-nothing nature of magnets is also going to make them more of a pain to deal with than a spring. You can't make press-checks with a magnetic bolt because you can't really open the action partways. For the same reason, you can't smoothly open the action, either--it will always be a violent jerk, because as you increase the force on the bolt, the magnet won't move at all, and then suddenly move all at once. This also seems like a great way to get random bits of steel stuck in the action that you can't easily remove. And if you have magnetic ammunition, either because of a steel core or because of bimetal jackets, you're definitely going to run into failures to feed.
>>8835 If it were to be made its only real application would be a novelty gun, but I do believe that with some work done on it, chambered in a small caliber, and enough love it could be made into a working firearm. Granted it would probably be the most finicky gun on the planet for reasons you stated, ammo, its most likely self destructive nature, and eventually steel scrap and bits preventing a full lockup.
>>8839 You would need some strong magnets to delay an action by any meaningful amount. Strong enough that just cycling the thing would be impractical. Your best bet would be to use electro-magnets, just turn them on when firing. It would be such a short period that power draw wouldn't be all that high. But getting capacitors that can sustain the necessary pulse would probably be bulky.
>>8841 If you're going to throw electricity into the mix, I think it would be easier to just use an electrically-actuated locking system instead of trying to screw around with magnets.
>>8843 I actually wonder how well a PK would work with a barrel that has no gas block in it, but there is a linear electric motor around the gas piston.
>>8855 Question is, how do you keep that motor from vibrating apart?
>>8966 Lots and lots of loctite.

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