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Essentials Chart Working Thread #2 Anonymous 01/10/2020 (Fri) 16:18:47 No.10880
To fix this chart. Current WIP version is picrelated. Old thread here >>9633 WIP Overhaul Mostly RPG but other minor changes. <FPS >Moved Clive Barker's Undying in from Horror >Cut Timeshift >Cut Bioshock 2 Also Metroid Prime went to Action-Adventure. <Action Adventure >Cut Half Life 2 nobody spoke up for it when I asked >Cut Shenmue a game nobody likes as much when they've actually played it and again nobody objected, object now if you want >Moved Metroid Prime Trilogy in from FPS <RPG >Moved New Vegas in from Hybrid-RPG >Added Dark Sun: Shattered Lands >Added Divinity: Original Sin II if there's something else in the series fags would prefer speak up. I know some consider OS and OSII weaker outside of coop >Added The Age of Decadence another game that might just seem good compared to what else came out around the same time >Added The Temple of Elemental Evil >Added Ultima VII >Cut KotR 1 2 is just outright superior anyway To some degree I'm throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks here with everything that's been suggested and then some other stuff too. Weakest entries are Age of Decedance more like a CYOA game than a great RPG and ToEE great combat system, poor everything else so they're candidates for getting cut. Also Darklands might have a unique setting but it's arguably one of the weaker of the older games here. <FPS-RPG Renamed to Hybrid RPG. Autism successfully increased. >Moved M&B Warband in from ARPG >Made EYE doublewide. Can shrink EYE back down if fags can think of something else to add here or move in from another RPG category. <Action-RPG >Cut Kingdom Hearts speak up if you want it to stay >Cut Diablo II since we have Grim Dawn >Cut Gothic since Gothic II is there skub if II is outright better also II vs NotR I know >Cut Risen since Gothic and II are generally better overall >Cut Ys: The Ark of Napishitm we've got two other games in the series and it was this or Origin With this it's down to two rows which it should stay limited to as RPGs in general have grown pretty majorly. <Dungeon Crawler >Moved Diablo in from ARPG >Added Pool of Radiance >Added Wizardry VII >Added Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky if that's the wrong one I blame that other anon for being vague >Added Grimoire Now there's one game too many again. I guess a M&M or Wizardry should go, or maybe Grimoire since it's hard to say if it's truly great or just good compared to other new games. Or alternatively I could just put Daggerfall back into RPG next to Morrowind. It's more of a dungeon crawler but it's borderline enough it'd work. Then we have to cut another RPG though. Third alternative is to just use a screenshot of Grimoire's main menu which includes the logo and would look better than the wide logo anyway. <JRPG >Cut Superstar Saga >Replaced Secret of Mana with Seiken Densetsu 3/Trials of Mana We've got room for three more JRPGs. If I've forgotten someone's suggestion from the last thread now's the time to mention it again make sure it's an actual JRPG not a nip-made ARPG. Alternatively we cut 4-5 games from JRPG and it loses a row which would be preferable since it's so large. Additional Notes I'll put Shadowrun: Dragonfall into the TBT section later. One anon wanted Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir in ARPG, if so we need to pick a game to remove (or anon can nominate one). If we can pick another Ys to go then perhaps that. If Kingdom Come is going in is it RPG or ARPG and is it worth knocking a game out? Next version I'll try and jiggle FPS around to get Tribes 2 in. Is there any other RPG game already on the chart or in general that's worthy of inclusion that's a hybrid with another genre?
Also I'll keep the old thread in mind for suggestions for the genres I didn't get to yet. Don't worry about them getting lost. >>10880 >Is there any other RPG game already on the chart or in general that's worthy of inclusion that's a hybrid with another genre? My current thinking is maybe you could classify one of the Ys games as a hybrid with action adventure maybe.
>>10880 >no bms even tho it was suggested what a worthless chart
>>10882 >>10880 Alternatively if fags really want Bioshock 2 back on it could go in hybrid RPG. I don't think it's necessarily strong enough to belong on the chart though. >>10883 Not got to flight yet.
Add a VR category ;^)
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I watched a few minutes of Diablo gameplay and I don't get why it's going to the Dungeon Crawler category. I mean when someone searches for dungeon crawlers he likely wants to play something grid-based, turn-based, and party-based. It's clearly an Action RPG. Anyway, I'm playing Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity to see if it maybe warrants inclusion over PMD 1/2. So far I've noticed two significant flaws: PP seems to regenerate between floors (? maybe it's just for the tutorial) and the text speed being fucking slow (and can't be increased). I will give it the benefit of doubt for now and keep playing, though. Also, I prefer PMD1 over 2. The bosses are much tougher, which makes preparation and tactics more important. The only hard boss in Sky is Dialga.
>>10891 >I watched a few minutes of Diablo gameplay and I don't get why it's going to the Dungeon Crawler category. I mean when someone searches for dungeon crawlers he likely wants to play something grid-based, turn-based, and party-based. It's clearly an Action RPG. That applies also to Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis and Daggerfall which don't match up with those definitions either but as per the last thread anons wanted to go with Dungeon Crawler as loosly defined (if you crawl in a dungeon) instead of Blobber or whatever so I went with that, and then Diablo comes under that heading too. It's a bit of a grey area in general I guess. >PMD games I leave picking one up to other anons. Not something I've played. >>10890 Not until there are games to fill it.
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>>10880 >We've got room for three more JRPGs Bug Fables. It took every gameplay mechanic in Paper Mario: TTYD and improved it tenfold. It's also just a very good JRPG, even if a potential player doesn't have nostalgia for the Paper Mario series. >>10891 >grid-based >turn-based >and party-based Arx Fatalis, Ultima Underworld, and Daggerfall have none of those characteristics (to my knowledge). >It's clearly an Action RPG. Someone mentioned last thread that Diablo was originally going to be a turn-based classic dungeon crawler, but one guy on the dev team wanted it to be real-time so he added that function on his own time. Diablo's action is also total garbage since you control everything with the mouse and can't ever avoid damage. It's a glorified real-time turn system like in Wizardry or Rogue. The defining characteristic of an action RPG is the action: if your stats matter more than your skill, which is definitely the case in Diablo, then it's more RPG than action.
>>10895 >Someone mentioned last thread that Diablo was originally going to be a turn-based classic dungeon crawler, but one guy on the dev team wanted it to be real-time so he added that function on his own time. That's 100% true. See picrelated and the pdf.
>>10891 >I watched a few minutes of Diablo gameplay stopped reading there
Archive of last thread: https://archive.ph/wip/54agN
>>10880 >Added The Age of Decadence another game that might just seem good compared to what else came out around the same time I think it's pretty good. It should be in CRPG according to rules we agreed upon in previous thread. >more like a CYOA game than a great RPG Yeah, it has way more limitations based on stat checks, but that's just a quirk of the game. You still have a degree of choice within your stat niche. I also managed to juggle my stats to pick whatever outcomes I liked most for the first half of the game, and still had some combat skills related to crossbows. It could replace Icewind Dale, that one isn't an RPG for sure. Icewind Dale might fit in Hybrid RPG, Dungeon Crawler or, heck, Real Time Tactics just by the name of that category. Probably better to just get rid of it. Did anyone actually like it? >ToEE great combat system, poor everything else I agree. It's unfinished, just like Arcanum.
>>10896 >>Someone mentioned last thread that Diablo was originally going to be a turn-based classic dungeon crawler, but one guy on the dev team wanted it to be real-time so he added that function on his own time. Wrong! 1 guy voted NO on realtime everyone else voted yes. Vidrelated with timestamp. Good video overall. https://youtu.be/VscdPA6sUkc?t=1362
>>10905 Neat. I've only got the Strategy guide and original pitch I posted earlier and the pitch is back for when they were still planning to be turnbased.
>>10904 >Yeah, it has way more limitations based on stat checks, but that's just a quirk of the game. You still have a degree of choice within your stat niche. I also managed to juggle my stats to pick whatever outcomes I liked most for the first half of the game, and still had some combat skills related to crossbows. Then we'll keep it. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't me being unfairly easy on a game just because of when it came out nostalgia isn't the only way a game can benefit there. >I think it's pretty good. It should be in CRPG according to rules we agreed upon in previous thread. >It could replace Icewind Dale, that one isn't an RPG for sure. it'd have to bump two CRPGs off unless we go in for some creative cropping. Up for that if we have to though. >Icewind Dale might fit in Hybrid RPG, Dungeon Crawler or, heck, Real Time Tactics just by the name of that category. Probably better to just get rid of it. Did anyone actually like it? It's certainly the weakest game in CRPG currently. >I agree. It's unfinished, just like Arcanum. And unlike Arcanum I don't think the greatness of what it got right is enough to cover for the flaws really. Less originality too. Troika never released a finished game. ToEE is the first candidate for cutting if we find a better RPG then. Could put KotR 1 back in instead of it but it's not a particularly strong candidate itself. >>10895 >>10902 Will put Bug Fables in then. I can't help but think I might have missed someone's JRPG suggestion from the last thread but I double checked and couldn't see one not counting things that actually belong in ARPG.
>>10895 >>10902 Hang on: Bug Fables has only been out since November. Has to be at least 6 months helps keep FotM out, not saying it is but the rule should be apply equally. I'll note it for consideration next time an update to the chart comes around.
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>>10908 > creative cropping Here's a legit looking variant.
>>10923 Don't add it anywhere. It's just one guy spamming it across all boards (literally). Maybe he really liked it, but that's just one guy.
>>10902 Yep, that sure is a thread full of autism. What was your point? >>10905 Thanks for sharing and correcting me. I do stand by my point that Diablo's combat is glorified turn-based compared to a true action RPG like the Souls games, however. >>10923 >Has to be at least 6 months Ah, true. I'll be sure to bug you about it in April.
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>>10927 >lying about autists on the internet to misinform people about a video game you don't like But why?
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I'll reiterate some of my more sensible suggestions from last time. Simpsons Arcade, Turtles in Time in beat'em ups. I think we were missing the Konami side of the 90s arcade action. Melty Blood once again I say should be there for both importance and it's quality. French Bread's success lead to Fighting Climax and UNIST, influenced a lot of other fighting games. Put one of the Castlevania GBA games on there, there is precedence. You have Super Metroid and Fusion on there, perhaps you could use Super Metroid's japanese cover to save space.
>>10930 >You have Super Metroid and Fusion on there, perhaps you could use Super Metroid's japanese cover to save space. Or remove Shantae or Hollow Knight.
>>10925 I've noticed another problem. Pathfinder: Kingmaker should probably be in CRPG too.
>>10931 Perhaps, I haven't played Hollow Knight, I can't say anything about it. With Shantae, it is odd being there, I haven't seen it being referred to as one explicitly. Also I'm retarded and Turtles in Time was right there the whole time, but I still believe the Simpsons arcade game should have a spot in beat'em ups.
>>10932 >>10925 >>10908 >>10904 Icewind Dale could be cut or go to Hybrid RPG if that's really justifiable. Then cut Fallout 2 because for all of its mechanical improvements the drop in writing quality and overall less interesting setting really bring it down compared to 1 and the far weaker ending/primary antagonist(s) are enough to seal the deal. That leaves room for both the reduce 1tile Age of Decadence and Pathfinder in CRPG. Obviously removing Fallout 2 is controversial but I don't think the mechanical improvements and larger scale make up for its flaws. >>10933 >Perhaps, I haven't played Hollow Knight, I can't say anything about it. With Shantae, it is odd being there, I haven't seen it being referred to as one explicitly. Just going by them being the weakest in terms of gameplay. Not a genre I like in general though I'm somewhat familiar with it. >Also I'm retarded and Turtles in Time was right there the whole time, but I still believe the Simpsons arcade game should have a spot in beat'em ups. Yeh there were a lot of good recommendations for arcade games in the last thread that I'll add when I get to those genre. Fags should keep suggesting/discussing it in the meantime though, I'm taking notes.
If you need to fill space in Run 'n' Gun, then Gunstar Heroes can definitely fit. >>10932 >Pathfinder:Kingmaker I recall the threads made about that game upon its release. It was pozzed to hell and back. Why should it be included? >>10933 >Perhaps, I haven't played Hollow Knight, I can't say anything about it. I 100%'d a pirated copy in 2017, and I'll vouch for the game's quality. The actual core gameplay itself is simplistic (one attack, one projectile, few movement options) but the atmosphere and sense of exploration are something few games achieve these days. Getting lost and finding all the different side characters, environments, and so on was extremely engaging from start to finish. Whether or not superb atmosphere makes up for mediocre mechanics is up to you. I think it deserves to stay, but there's also an argument for it to be removed.
>>10932 >Pozzfinder What? It isn't on the list and I don't think it should be. Why are you replying to me anyway?
>>10936 >Why should it be included I feel like people just mentioning every game they ever heard about for some reason.
>>10936 >>10937 >I recall the threads made about that game upon its release. It was pozzed to hell and back. Why should it be included? I don't remember explicit SJW shit being noticeable but then I played it near release when it was still bugged to fuck and never managed to get particularly far what I played was pretty good from a gameplay perspective. Now that the bugs have apparently been patched it's just a mechanically improved Baldur's Gate as far as I know. By the time the game came out I was ignoring most threads on /v/ dealing with any modern drama. Post the SJW stuff it has and then I can remove trying it again from the backlog at least. Odd that a slav made game would go in for that sort of thing but I guess it's everywhere nowadays.
>>10939 most of the pozz involves the companions like fucking valerie if you didnt interact with them much you might not have noticed it >Odd that a slav made game would go in for that sort of thing but I guess it's everywhere nowadays. slavs are overrated like poles being the niggers of europe dont listen to the memes
>>10939 >By the time the game came out I was ignoring most threads on /v/ dealing with any modern drama. I was mostly using /vg/ by that point as well but /vg/'s rule about twitter and political threads might have kept out a lot of political cancer that pretended to be vidya but it also meant serious cases that needed to be discussed were missed. Thrax's autistic attempt to force all news into a containment thread was dumb. Pathfinder was insidious with how it introduced the sjw stuff because the devs clearly realized that it was going to be unpopular and decided to hide any evidence until they had everyone's money. Never preorder and never kickstart.
>>10942 >poles being the niggers of europe Sure thing mohammed.
>>10942 >most of the pozz involves the companions like fucking valerie if you didnt interact with them much you might not have noticed it That would probably explain it then. Companions have been an excuse recently to self-insert for a tranny writer. It was better when party members were not premade even if that was just an option. Classic tabletop /tg/ games often had mary sue premade/fluff characters even before the recent SJW plague see: that one vampirewerewolf combined fag from VTM. >slavs are overrated like poles being the niggers of europe dont listen to the memes In my experience the Poles in Poland are fine, it's the ones who've left to be parasites in other countries that are the problem. That's a common pattern for any nationality.
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>>10930 >Simpsons arcade Seconded >Turtles in Time That's already there it's the first in that category for whatever reason instead of a real Beat em Up like D&D: Shadow Over Mystara which isn't even on the list. No wonder last thread people kept saying they need someone who's played games like this too give input. Go over to the fighting thread and grab fightcade and the game. It's 4 player but on fightcade you can only play with one other person over the net, regardless you'll see a high quality beat em up that puts lesser titles into perspective. You can also play the Punisher game on fightcade with another person. If someone wants to set up a time not tonight sry I'll co op with anyone in either game if you want or if anyone wants to play with anyone else I highly encourage it. Both games are easy to get and play, run on toasters, are short by nature of being BEUs and arcade games, and may give more people a bit more understanding of the genre. Fighting games thread has all the fightcade info and resources you'll need in the OP if you're interested. >>6894 >SFC Super Metroid Seconded
>>10939 >I only played near release >didn't get very far >didn't see much SJW shit because I didn't pay attention to /v/ This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the game. As for poz, it's Pathfinder, which is one of the most pozzed games/settings in all tabletop and which I do not trust whatsoever. The 8chan /v/ threads are here: Thread 1 - https://web.archive.org/web/20190116153010/https://8ch.net/v/res/15502861.html Thread 2 - https://web.archive.org/web/20190116153027/https://8ch.net/v/res/15522404.html Thread 3 - https://web.archive.org/web/20190116153039/https://8ch.net/v/res/15534916.html Thread 4 - https://web.archive.org/web/20190116153044/https://8ch.net/v/res/15552526.html Thread made several months later, "when the bugs were fixed" - https://web.archive.org/web/20190116152940/https://8ch.net/v/res/15954714.html Sadly, the images haven't been archived properly, but there's definitely poz you can read about in the posts.
>>10949 >Shadows Over Mystara isn't on the list I had missed that. I definitely second it: it's a beautiful game and the branching paths add a lot of replay value.
>>10948 >Classic tabletop /tg/ games often had mary sue premade/fluff characters even before the recent SJW plague see: that one vampirewerewolf combined fag from VTM. Pathfinder was no exception. Hell Amiri who's one of the stronk female companions in Kingmaker is actually an iconic from the tabletop. >In my experience the Poles in Poland are fine, it's the ones who've left to be parasites in other countries that are the problem. That's a common pattern for any nationality. With a few historical exceptions like the earliest burger settlers anyone who leaves their homeland without being outright forced to is obviously scum. >>10951 >This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the game. Tbh its a shame because the actual game is mostly fine but the sjw writing is unforgivable. Some fags elsewhere advocate ignoring the sjw parts and just playing it but you can't give them a single inch like that or everything gets infected. I wish someone made a mod or something that got rid of it all. >As for poz, it's Pathfinder, which is one of the most pozzed games/settings in all tabletop and which I do not trust whatsoever. This. Pathfinder always had problems but at least with pen and paper you could pick and choose the bits of the setting you used.
>>10942 >most of the pozz involves the companions like fucking valerie if you didnt interact with them much you might not have noticed it This is true. If you look at the threads in >>10951 a fair number of the fags complaining obviously did not actually play the game and just decided to parrot things others had posted out of context. Its annoying but ignorable and then the game itself is fine. However I agree with >>10960 that it should not be included even if technically the gameplay ignoring the writing could qualify for the chart because if you start making exceptions for degeneracy its a slippery slope. Zero tolerance. >>10947 Picrelated. And before you blame the Soviets its been 30 years and countries have recovered from being entirely flattened in that time. West Germany in 1975 for example. At least the bongs had the backbone to leave.
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>>10949 >>10953 Noted >>10966 >>10960 >>10951 Also noted. So no Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Now in terms of needing a single slot in CRPG for Age of Decadence. Do we move Icewind Dale to Hybrid, remove it entirely or remove Fallout 2? Also we'll end up with 3 free slots in RPG.
>>10967 This proves meds are superior. Greece is living off of nordcuck gibs and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
To make things even more complicated, opinions on IWD2? It's unique among IE games with its 3rd ed. influence and is much more of an RPG than IWD1 while still predominantly being a combat sim.
>>10977 Never tried 2. I got bored halfway through 1.
I'd like to make two changes to the current chart: >rename Character Action to Stylish Action More clear, descriptive genre title that doesn't have any e-celeb baggage. If we ditched Immersive Sim in favour of Hybrid RPG, then this change should also be made. >combine Hack 'n' Slash and Beat-Em-Up Hack 'n' Slash has always been the absolute worst genre name, because it's only used to describe games that are beat-em-ups where the characters use swords. Golden Axe is a beat-em-up, as is Mad World. No More Heroes is a stylish action game, as are the reboot Ninja Gaiden games. I've also heard hack 'n' slash to mean musou games like Dynasty Warriors, where you run around a giant field and kill thousands of harmless enemies, but none of the games in the category fit that definition, either. The Dead Rising series comes close, but the zombies in those games are actual threats and the games themselves are more like exploration action adventures than true action games.
>>11012 I have no idea what you're talking about, because I don't care about those genres, but: >I've also heard hack 'n' slash to mean musou games like Dynasty Warriors, where you run around a giant field and kill thousands of harmless enemies That's what I always thought Hack and Slash games are supposed to be. Cutting down countless mooks without too much focus on equipment and level-ups. I found a description of it that perfectly aligns with my understanding on some random site just now: <Weapon-Based Melee System >One of the key characteristics of a HnS game is that it uses a combat system that revolves around the player wielding some sort of handheld weapon-the tool responsible for the “hacking and slashing” in a Hack and Slash. Often, the weapons used by the main character are interchangeable. <Button System >One of the main attractions of Hack and Slash games is the simple game mechanic. While some video games have you learn button layouts for each different weapon, you can feel relatively confident that HnS games will have you using the same four to six buttons or keys (on average) to perform Combo, Quick, and Charged attacks no matter what weapon you pick up. <Fast Pacing >The overall game style of a true Hack and Slash is the envy of today’s ADHD-riddled youth- run around, kill some bad guys, run around some more until you find a boss fight.
>>11012 >rename Character Action to Stylish Action Doesn't bother me either way. Fags can speak up for which they prefer. >If we ditched Immersive Sim in favour of Hybrid RPG, then this change should also be made. Immersive Sim isn't a genre, Hybrid RPG is well sort of, it's technically a bunch of combined genres but they have to at least be RPGs. In a proper system you'd have one for FPS-RPG, one for FPS-ARPG etc but that's way more granularity than the chart needs. >combine Hack 'n' Slash and Beat-Em-Up I'll also leave this up to fags who have more of a stake in the genres to argue about. I've played a fair number of the games that are in Hack and Slash currently but few of the Beat-Em Ups.
nominating this bug trash for best game that uses cards that are dispensed to you that don't have you position them strategically like some autistic shit like last picrel what's with games like that anyway are they good has anyone played any games where you place physical cards on a physical field in order to play the video game? Is some shit like this worth looking into? This shit could very well be essential but none of us know it
>>11057 Learn some fucking grammar, my brain refuses to make sense of your shit.
>>11057 Its literally rock paper scissors with 3D animations of bugs. Yakuza 0 has it as a minigame and that version is more fleshed out than the original.
>>11023 That's a fine description, but it requires some modifications. >Ninja Gaiden Black >No More Heroes >Mad World These are stylish action games, and should be moved appropriately. >Golden Axe This is a beat-em-up, complete with side-scrolling and the 3D sprite-based perspective. I don't know anything about Otogi, Shinobi, Severance, or Bloodrayne, so they can stay there. God of War should also arguably be moved from stylish action to hack 'n' slash, since it's generally focused more on slaughtering hordes of mooks than the precision stylish action games have.
Symphony of the Night is garbage, pick from one of the following superior entries to replace it: -Circle of the Moon -Aria of Sorrow -Dawn of Sorrow -Portrait of Ruin
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Please for the love of God add Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir to the Character Action or ARPG section!
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>>11137 >"SotN is garbage" >"Circle of the Moon and Dawn of Sorrow are better!" Symphony may be on the easy side, but it was the first of it's kind in Castlevania series. CotM is ugly and clunky as all hell and DoS is just a worse version of AoS. Haven't played Portrait of Ruin, so I won't comment on that. I suggest we leave SotN in place and hope that anons reading the graph understand there are more similar games in the series.
>>10891 So it seems you can't accept multiple missions at once in Gates to Infinity. Does it stay that way for the whole game? If so, seems like a crippling flaw. Also, after completing the mission, you can't go to the higher floors in a dungeon anymore, but are forced to return to town. I'm close to dumping the game if this persists, which I assume it will.
>>11135 >>11023 >>11012 So to clarify fags want this: >Beat-Em Up Focuses on fighting a reasonable number of enemies and a lot on the combos you pull off/button presses (learning that) rather than equipment. May or may not use weapons as long as they're not the focus. Opponents should individually be somewhat of a threat if you fuck up. I'm not explaining this well, I've got an intuitve grasp of what fags mean here but it's hard to actually explain the difference between HnS and Beat-Em Up. >Hack 'n' Slash Cutting down hordes of mooks each individually not too challenging without much extra shit going on like levels or deep combos. Weapon use a must and the focus tends to be on managing weapon use or target prioritisation when it's not just horde killing. >Stylish Action Either of the above but focusing on spectacle and mostly 1v1 fights or at least opponents with large HP pools etc. And all three of these may be 2D or 3D.
>>11150 What I'm trying to get at is HnS the gameplay is about fighting bigger crowds of individually non-threatening mooks, managing which weapons/other resources you use likely chopping and changing often and so on but not so much on finesse with the controls. Beat-Em Up is much more about fighting a smaller number of individually more troublesome enemies not necessarily they can kill you but they're each distinct threats and focussing hard on your mechanical skills than managing the resources * *weapons/other equipment/ability bars or whatever** or dealing with huge crowds where maybe your main decision is to deal with the heavy mg mook first. In neither genre should you get serious long-term progression beyond maybe unlocking a little bit more HP or a slightly different/longer combo but no RPG-lite progression, or is this for HnS only? Under these descriptions games like Bloodrayne or Enclave, if anyone remembers it, would obviously be HnS If someone can explain it better or I'm misunderstanding what fags are on about please give it a shot. >>11149 I assume that means inferior to sky.
Try this: What do God of War, Bloodrayne and Dynasty Warriors have in common? They're about spectacle. It's about mashing through tons of shit, QTE executions or whatever. The depth of the gameplay is secondary. What do Ninja Gaiden Black, God Hand and Final Fight have in common? They're about pattern recognition. You're not expected to do anything especially complicated, but if you get it wrong you get fucked up in short order. What do DMC, MGR and Bayonetta have in common? They're about execution. Take risks and be as flashy as you can, because playing only for survival is missing most of the fun. Obviously some of the games mentioned fit better into these definitions than others do. It's easier to style on mooks in God Hand than it is in a 16-bit beat-em-up, and something like MGR is full of spectacle. But I think this is the essential distinction between these genres.
>>11150 >Stylish Action That's dumb as fuck. Fags really can't help but create non-genre names for their precious snowflake games.
>>11185 That or character action, same difference.
>>11148 >Portrait of Ruin It's a fine Castlevania game, but the dual character mechanic leads to some very easily exploitable bugs. There are other Castlevania games that give a better impression of the series. >>11150 I think the genres exist on a scale of enemy complexity and number. >Stylish action Each enemy type has multiple forms of attack and potentially defence. Complexity is derived from choosing the right attacking option vs enemy defences without becoming vulnerable to enemy attack options. Individual enemies can be very threatening, and encounters do not need to have more than two or three enemies to be challenging. Player character has a large, distinct pool of moves to choose from and is encouraged to combo enemies for style, hence the name. >Hack 'n' Slash Individual enemies are almost totally nonthreatening and very shallow. Complexity is derived from managing competing resources (health, magic, field positioning, time) and target prioritization. Encounters often have dozens or hundreds of mooks, and some more powerful enemies. Player character has a move pool that can easily dispatch dozens of mooks in a single attack. >Beat-em-ups Individual enemies are distinct from each other, but one-dimensional (so it's unlikely for a grappler-type enemy to have a projectile, and for a zoner-type enemy to have a grab), with limited defence if any. Enemies are somewhat challenging in groups, but not threatening individually. Complexity is derived from crowd control and avoiding bad situations like being surrounded. Player character has a move pool with some simple but effective distinctions: a few types of strikes, grab, pummel/throw, one or two jumping attacks. There may be one or two other details like how minion spawning during bosses is common in beat-em-ups and rare in stylish action, but I think the above definitions are solid. >>11185 >spurious accusation against imaginary outgroup with no foundation How is it a worse name than character action?
>>11190 Seems workable enough then. Funnily a few games like Bully almost end up getting covered arguably a pretty shallow 3D Beat-Em Up slapped into an open world or a hybrid of it with some other genre. >>11164 >What do God of War, Bloodrayne and Dynasty Warriors have in common? They're about spectacle. It's about mashing through tons of shit, QTE executions or whatever. The depth of the gameplay is secondary. Not sure I'd include Bloodrayne in that description but yeh I get your point. There's something intuitive in how fags are describing the genres that lets you put games in them.
I've got some ideas on how to finalise RPG which I'll post sometime early Sunday eurofag time. Using the remaining games and suggestions I'll knock up 2-3 different ways we could go and fags can give feedback doesn't have to be a choice only between those options, they're just to illustrate roughly what's available. After that we can move on to the initial changes for other genres. Since it's currently where people are currently focussing the next area I'll do after RPG will be Beat-Em Up/Hack 'n' Slash/Character Action or Stylish Action or whatever it is. After that fighting including the splitting of categories as discussed and after fighting I guess shoot-em up/on-rail/twin-stick shooter to keep with the arcade theme. I'll also make more minor changes like additions to Action-Adventure and Adventure that fags have suggested as we go. After the above the remaining big grouping are Tactics & Strategy and Flight/Space/Sim/Vehicular Combat, then it's a matter of cleaning up the smaller areas like Racing and Run & Gun which being more isolated i.e. changes in the category won't affect other categories and they don't seem to need overhauls or name changes should go quickly. Once that's done we'll go back through every category from the top left making any final difficult calls for the remaining few spaces and ensuring nothing was missed and that should allow a full version of the chart by no later than the end of January. Then we can revisit it probably end of 2020 or early next year fuck knows what'll be going on by then with Julay, 8kun and the various bunkers but I hope we're all still here which should be faster since the major changes will have been done. Not much point doing it before then since there's unlikely to have been a giant shift even in 11 months. This seems a sensible strategy as it lets us tackle the big groups of categories/genres first and get that autism out of the way.
>>11190 >>11186 Just call them what they are - action games. If they're similar to, but not solely about punching and kicking or solely about hacking and slashing, then they're action games. You're sitting here worrying about how specific and pretentious they needs to be called when people who look at the picture will just sensibly look up gameplay of whatever they take interest in.
>>11202 Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to it. >>11203 >just call final fight and ninja gaiden black the same thing >who cares? No thanks, gramps. People like you are why genre names are as messy as they are.
>>11205 >People like you are why genre names are as messy as they are. Genres are messy as they are because people like you keep making up new ones like like degenerates make up new genders. I'm telling you to Keep It Simple, Stupid. You're never gonna finish this chart if you keep dawdling on shit like this. Final Fight is a beat-em-up because it's literally just about beating faggots up. Ninja Gaiden is under the action game umbrella because on top of having combat, it also has platforming, puzzles and exploration. So is God of War and DMC. Metal Gear Rising is an action hack'n'slash, but still an action game with the same similarities. It's the simplest fucking distinction you can possibly make, using the least terms possibly, and you're telling me it's "messy". It's not genres that need new terms, it's the games themselves that are messy. You need to make the decision of putting them in the most fitting places instead of making up new genres to put them in. Or are you gonna make a fucking Soulsborne section too?
Your list of shoot them downs (STDs) stinks, see >>10453
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question, should game mergers and/or game compilations be included? for example world of xeen is technically might and magic 4 and 5 merged together, should they only count if they're official or fan made stuff can also count? an example of the latter would be this https://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/10/16657
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>>10880 Unless I missed them, I don't see ONI, Nox, CDDA, Battletoads, Tyrian, Age of Wonders. Read about CDDA in the previous thread and I don't agree with reasoning as the same can by applied to Elona+ or Factorio. Same with Phoenix Point (((director))) being a huge chink-pounded asshole with the game itself sucking balls outside of one gimmick, but that doesn't make UFO, which was supposedly made by that asshole, a bad game. >Мародер Just stick to 7.62, comrade. >VN I'd remove them altogether, too many fetishes, too little gameplay. From what I remember playing Mirrors Edge on release, it was very mediocre. >Crusader No Remorse >Adventure I'd be playing way more adventures if they had as much death and destruction! Games taking 2 tiles for a stupid/no reason. Some franchises only have one game when multiple are good (Bauldur's Gate, Red Alert, etc) while others have multiple (Thief, Hitman, etc). Which makes me confused - is there not enough space on unlimited size image file or too much space for games to take 2 tiles? I wouldn't mind if there was one best or base/first game of the franchise with small text/cropping of other worthy games of franchise names next to it. Not sure how readable it will be though. I'll come back with more bullying if I remember other games. >>11221 Personally, if some merger is good, improves the games and can be installed without problems, I'd use it. Unless you try to install extras Baldur's Gate Trilogy is one of those, being able to play BG2 classes in BG1 with higher resolution is a very good addition. Restoration patches are nice too. Same with mods - Jagged Alliance 2 is a great game by itself, but 1.13 adds so fucking much that it's hard to ignore it. Some mods might have one problem though - those made by the veterans of the game who find base difficulty too easy for them so other than adding useful shit and fixing bugs they crank up the even the easiest difficulty to anal annihilator levels. What happens to people who play that modded game for the first time is pretty obvious.>>11210
ignore the 11210 in the end
>>11223 >Baldur's Gate >good
>>11236 I would kick your butt, villain.
>>11164 God of War is a action adventure. Bloodrayne is a third-person shooter. Dynasty Warriors is a horde remover. Ninja Gaiden Black is CUHRAYZEE action-adventure. Final Fight is a beat 'em up. DMC, MGR Bayonetta and God Hand are all CUHRAYZEE action-adventures made by the same studio.
>>11203 >>11205 >>11210 The rule for categories should be similar gameplay: if a fag liked one game in there they should probably like another one. >>11213 Yeh when i get to that I'll use that post as a start. >>11221 Best overall vidya experience, doesn't matter if fan made or official. However if the merge includes inferior games that drop the overall quality down individual games are preferred.
>>11245 >God of War is a action adventure. >Dynasty Warriors is a horde remover. They're both beat em ups >Bloodrayne is a third-person shooter. Have you played bloodrayne? The second one doesn't even allow you to shoot guns.
>>11251 Yes, I have played Bloodrayne, replayed it last year. Why are you bringing up 2? We're not talking about 2. I'd be willing to call Dynasty Warriors a beat 'em up, if it was acknowledged that it's a very specific type made with grander scale. But to call God of War a beat 'em up if frankly ludicrous. May as well call any 3rd person adventure game with melee a Beat 'em up. >The Suffering? Beat 'em up >Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death Beat 'em up >Darksiders Beat 'em up >Remnant: From the Ashes Beat 'em up >Dungeon Siege Beat 'em up >Psychonauts Beat 'em up
>>11223 >Unless I missed them, I don't see ONI, Nox, CDDA, Battletoads, Tyrian, Age of Wonders. Some are good, some a bit overrated. There's room for additions. >Read about CDDA in the previous thread and I don't agree with reasoning as the same can by applied to Elona+ or Factorio. Will address this in its own post. >Just stick to 7.62, comrade. Marauder is better than 7.62 in many ways though the smaller scale and linearity both of which are actually a lot of the reason it's better sometimes make it worth keeping both in since they excel in different areas. Marauder also needs you to manually fix the camera, game speed and the grenade launchers since it never got a fanpatch but if you can't handle editing a few lines in a config file you shouldn't be playing slav autism games. The translation is fucking terrible too. The thing that catches people out is it looks like a turn based game which rtwp but it's entirely different: it's more like real time but the game will pause and ask for another input whenever you finish an assigned action. Similarly the accuracy % you see is just based on your stats not based on any objects you might hit in-between since shots fired actually leave the muzzle of the gun not fly magically from you to the target. Obviously most of that applies to 7.62 as well. >VN Fags didn't like it when the entire section was removed, it's sort of throwaway now but it covers the two games that are really relevant. >From what I remember playing Mirrors Edge on release, it was very mediocre. Mirror's Edge is fine, just turn Physx off if you want a playable framerate. The only truly poor shit is some of the very combat heavy late game sections, even then most aren't as bad as fags claim. The worst offenders are the 1-2 where you can do nothing but walk forward and shoot while the rest still let you run around at will. >Games taking 2 tiles for a stupid/no reason. It looks better. I tried experimenting with cropped/edited one-tile covers back on 8/v/ with the chart and it didn't look so good. >Some franchises only have one game when multiple are good (Bauldur's Gate, Red Alert, etc) while others have multiple (Thief, Hitman, etc). The rule is where they are either of exactly equal quality so one can't be picked (Contracts vs Blood Money) or where they excel at different things (Thief vs Thief II). Where one game in the series is just outright better than the rest only it gets put in. The RTS section in general is getting a major rework though. >Same with mods - Jagged Alliance 2 is a great game by itself, but 1.13 adds so fucking much that it's hard to ignore it. I know of 1.13 but unless we can find a good way to represent it graphically it'll need to stay as base JA2.
>>11223 >CDDA CDDA still gets less fun with every patch. Currently it more or less plays with you having to use one of the handful of non-nerfed set starting strategies or fail good luck finding those as a new player: all sensible actions have long since been fucked over because experienced players found them too easy followed by a trivial mid and late game where the only change is what random item recieves wild buffs or nerfs, usually focussed entirely around the fags playing a deathmobile style of game because the dev doesn't seem to care about the idea of survivalism in a zombie apocalypse more static base or what have you and would rather you just run around with insect arms in his fanfic setting that pretends early on to be zombie survival. Cataclysm was much more about scavenging and surviving in a shitty situation. CDDA started adding a fuckton of crafting bullshit where scavenging is optional after the initial panic such that if you don't choose to go for a mobile base you've only got to push through the early hobo phase and then there's no challenge at all. To counteract this CDDA constantly makes the hobo phase harder and removed all the logical ways you'd act in a survival situation also nerfs items and found food to silly degrees like dried beans having only a shelf life of one fucking year because the dev either didn't get the original game's idea or actively chose to ignore it and make his own game on top of someone else's base. Not saying that Cataclysm was ideal or that CDDA didn't make some needed changes but currently and for at least the last two years CDDA slides more towards that style of game and further from survivalism with every patch. It's an issue with a lot of open-ended roguelikes like this when they're in active dev because long-term players demand more to do and harder gameplay. Only autism projects like UnrealWorld where the dev cares much more about simulating the setting he's picked and players are lucky to be along for the ride avoid it. Also a personal complaint but I swear in older versions it was actually possible to start a new character in the same world without spawning within fucking sight range of where you started last time. It's basically pointless now not to regenerate everything because you can reliably start over and just walk right into your old shelter. I seem to remember somewhere that someone was working on an unshitted CDDA fork but I suspect it died. However it's obviously not a chart based on my opinions alone so if fags insist I'll put CDDA in. I just wanted to rant about the reasons I dislike it.
>>11251 >>11245 Bloodrayne isn't really a third person shooter. You could technically complete the entire game outside of boss fights without even picking up a gun and where you do pick them up they're clearly secondary to your melee attacks. It fits better with the hordes-of-mooks description of hack 'n' slash given previously.
>>11256 you could technically complete F.E.A.R. without any firearms, but you don't see me lobbing it in the same category as Alien vs Predator Arcade.
>>11257 The difference is fear's primary method of attacking is clearly guns. Bloodrayne's is clearly the melee attacks.
I'll stress again I won't exclude CDDA just because I dislike it, but I'll at least try and lay things out more clearly. >>11255 >>11223 More simply: Cataclysm: a flawed survival-scavenging game about a zombie apocalypse. Roguelike game where you need to weigh up your options and scavenge randomly generated items from the environment according to your playstyle. CDDA: a slightly furry 'survival'-crafting game with an obnoxious hobo phase built on top of the game Cataclysm was. Roguelike minecraft that pretends to be an entirely different game for the first ~5 hours of every character. Hobo phase requires playing in a pretty set manner through early crafting and then you can actually bring in your own playstyle in the mid game. Because of this split identity CDDA will just keep making that hobo phase more and more annoying when really it should just be cut entirely for adding nothing to the game. Now there's nothing wrong with wanting to play roguelike minecraft but why pick CDDA over a game like UnReal World which not only does it better overall but doesn't have the stupid start? Certainly if you imagine giving either game to a new player then playing CDDA as the game it pretends to be roguelike Dawn of the Dead/I am Legend (book) not minecraft-with-more-zombies right off the bat will just lead to frustration and early death after early death. Give them URW and all they need to do is learn the shitty finnish interface and decide for themselves what to do next. URW does have a hobo phase but at least it plays like the rest of the game and actually allows for variations in playstyle.
>>11255 CataDDA is great and I play it a lot, but it is controversial to include it.
>>11260 >but it is controversial to include it. Honestly more anons like it than don't or bounced off it hard and don't dislike it enough to care either way. I doubt my opinion is particularly common.
>>11253 >Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death yeah thats a beat em up >The Suffering >Remnant: From the Ashes Very explicit third person shooters >Dungeon Siege Its not even an action game >Psychonauts Explicit platformer Are you this stupid or just pretending?
>>11257 >complete F.E.A.R. without any firearms You can't
>>11223 >ONI Haven't actually played that one. What makes it worthy for inclusion? >Nox, CDDA, Age of Wonders Don't know what those are, so I won't needle you about them. >Battletoads I had thought that was under the 2D platformer section, but apparently not. I don't think it needs to be there, but it could be if people wanted it. >Tyrian <euroshmups Jokes aside, Tyrian is probably the best euroshmup, so I'd have no problem with it being included. >>11272 Read his post again.
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>>11274 Tyrian isn't even as good as Shin'en shooters.
>>11274 Jets 'n' Guns Gold is way better for that matter as well. No clue why you'd think that piece of crap is the best of the Euroshmups.
>>11275 >>11280 >claims with no supporting evidence Do you not understand the point of this thread? I've never heard of those games. Why are they better than Tyrian?
>spend the last 20 minutes or so playing Tyrian to remind myself >ice skate controls far worse than most >constant bullet wobble >foreground effects obscuring the screen >difficult to tell obstacles apart from background >getting hit shoves you around uncontrollably, including when colliding with obstacles >GOTTA SPEED UP segments full of said obstacles >no interesting patterns or enemies >music is entirely unmemorable That's a nope. Tyrian and Raptor are the only euroshmups I can remember playing and they both suck.
>>11284 >>music is entirely unmemorable I'll give you the rest, but this is just wrong.
>>11291 Tyrian's soundtrack really isn't that impressive. Either among other shmups or among European synth artists in general. The soundtrack is usually the reason to play Euroshmups, too.
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This list is far from perfect, it still has a lot of garbage like all that PS3 and wiiu shit there. But this is the first time I see a chart that isn't 95% either bait or normalfag shit. Congratulations. Anyway, definitely add GRID to the list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Driver:_Grid Best racing AI ever, a career mode with an actual career, extremely good simcade physics, high variety of racing modes and tracks, and a shitsmear filter that you can mod out. A classic enjoyed by /v/. You might also consider this lesser known rally game from the golden age of rally games: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Xpand_Rally_Xtreme It's really just a solid rally game. It's not garbage like the DIRT franchise or whatever nu-/ogc/ cancer or just normalfags are up to nowadays. You time attack rally tracks as you upgrade your car or buy new ones with the money, if you mess up you can kill your driver in a car crash and end his career. I think this one is hard to pirate so I'm providing a download: #!ccVHRCBC!KtX_jFx W1RsY1l7TyKs2KKBqCZZ2RarY j0GkNzYfsJQ Descent and Descent 2 are also worth including, right from the early days in shooters before everything was a modern military shooter. https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Descent
>>11152 >I assume that means inferior to sky. After playing it some more - forget Gates to Infinity - it's a total casual turd. There's not even a hunger mechanic as in the previous games and yes, the "no picking multiple missions" persists.
OP, add in Motorstorm Pacific Rift. Hands down the best off-road arcade racing game to date.
>>11202 >Option 1 Move Icewind Dale to Hybrid RPG, move Age of Decadence to CRPG. We'd need to find 3 more JRPGs and 3 more RPGs that aren't filler which would be difficult for RPG in particular or just live with the gaps. >Option 2 As above but cut Fallout 2 and instead keep Icewind Dale in CRPG. Alternatively just cut Icewind Dale as a variant of this but I didn't bother making an image for it. >Option 3 Move Age of Decadence into CRPG instead of IWD. Remove hybrid RPG category and distribute the games between RPG and ARPG as appropriate. Adding also Kingdom Come and that Odin Sphere game if it's actually any good means we only need 2 more ARPGs and 3 JRPGs and there are more candidates for ARPG that aren't filler. The other nice thing about this option is it balances ARPG a bit more between western games and eastern games. Downside is ARPG grows a row again but overall the length of all RPG sections combined stays the same length, also you can make fair arguments for SS1 and SS2 not fitting so well in RPG. >Option 4 As 3 but keep IWD and cut Fallout 2 again. IWD could also conceivably slot into Dungeon Crawler I guess, if there's a game worth removing for it to fit. Nothing really radical here, 3 and 4 seem the superior way to go to me. These are rough suggestions so obviously the specific games in each can still be tweaked. Whatever happens we need 3 more good JRPGs if at all possible I have a feeling I may have missed a suggestion from earlier.
>>11308 Note also that Kingdom Come and Odin Sphere are not in options 1 and 2. I know it's a bit odd to suggest removing hybrid rpg given I was pretty keen on keeping it last thread but realistically speaking it's probably better to split them out.
>>11299 >>11305 Both noted for racing later on.
>>11308 Keep Hybrid RPG for sure.
>>11308 you could keep hybrid rpg and also make action rpg a three liner if there are enough games to fill all the slots
>>11308 is it too late for other dungeon crawler suggestions? for the three rpgs and jrpgs I could probably think of some but then it'd really depend on what the other anons say about them, also there's got to be a way to make both mothers fill 1 gap, I dont think it's possible with barkley unless you only fill it with the title and nothing else
>>11308 I think Hybrid RPG is a good cateogry, and I disagree with changing definitions or categories based on the number of games - so, I dislike options 3 and 4 because they remove a category entirely. If there are only X games in a category, and we need X + 2 to fill a row evenly, then either let the row be short or use a double-wide cover (or remove a double-wide cover, in the case of the JRPG section). The number of games per row is totally arbitrary and should have no bearing on the contents of the chart.
>>11322 For ARPG would personally throw anything that isn't a straight-up Diablo clone under hybrid or JRPG, so that would just leave Monster Hunter, Nioh and Grim Dawn.
>>11324 That's completely retarded, there are scores of action RPGs with far high standards of action than Diablo.
>>11336 What I'm saying is that ARPGs are a braindead genre designated for Diablo mouse clicker clones, anything beyond that has enough depth I'd consider it a hybrid game.
Hm, I can't seem to find Front Mission (TBT) and Front mission: Gun Hazard (2D Platformer). I think both are very enjoyable games, what do others think? I haven't played original Stalker as I heard it was less immersive but absolutely loved Call of Pripyat for its immersion, heard others saying it was the best game of the series too so it might do better as a showcase game of the series. >>11259 Thanks for reminding me of URW, I completely forgot about it. I remember playing it long ago, getting eaten by wolves and dying of cold and hunger while trying to finish a hut. Gotta give it another try. >>11254 >>11274 Battletoads might be a bit overrated as I haven't played it for a long long time, so might be my nostalgia goggles working. ONI is one of the few western games that used moon stylistic and actually made it good if not better than what japs do, though that's not the reason. Gameplay is solid, has both fighting and shooting elements and overall made well for a 3rd person game. I replayed it a few years ago and enjoyed it. Age of Wonders specifically AoW2: Shadow Magic is a very good turn-based strategy, with actually different factions and extensive magic system that allowed to terraform the map. Modern AoW3 failed at that, though I somehow enjoyed AoW:Planetfall. Neither are worth adding to the list. Nox is something that stemmed from Diablo but went completely different way. Isometric action-RPG not much RPG though, except for the class choice with stuff like jumping, blocking and line of sight, plus puzzles, secret and enemies that can kick your ass really fast. Also worth mentioning that the game has a very nice magic in it as all the spells are different and useful, with lots being utility spells. It's probably the closest thing to what I think magic should look like in games instead of what we see in almost every game - color-flavored elementnameball dispenser simulator. RIP Westwood Tyrian, I don't really like shmups, so for a casual-shmup player like me it's very nice, all those levels, music, upgrades, branching paths, hard not to enjoy that. Replayed it a few years ago too. Worth mentioning game having an android version, it's playable and is actually a game unlike almost everything mobile-related. I put up those games because I do recommend them, so if anyone haven't played those, you have stuff to look forward to and see for yourself why they are worthy to be included here. >>11280 >Jets'n'Guns Now that you mention it, I don't see it on the list. >>11295 I loved it a lot though, matter of taste. Btw the guy that made music for Tyrian also made music for Jazz Jackrabbit 2, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex... >>11299 Descent was nice, it wasn't a game I absolutely loved but I enjoyed it and damn it did taught me how to orient in 3d space maze. I bet normalfags will get their asses blasted off from simply trying to play it and that without the part where you have escape the mine before it self-destructs.
>>11346 >Descent was nice, it wasn't a game I absolutely loved but I enjoyed it and damn it did taught me how to orient in 3d space maze. I bet normalfags will get their asses blasted off from simply trying to play it and that without the part where you have escape the mine before it self-destructs. I don't get why normalfags hate well-designed mazes, I just think they're fucking retarded.
>hey what's an essential FPS i have to play >serious sam >I'd like to get into Action games >oh you haven't lived until you've played Prototype Some of the genres are just a bunch of the same quality with nobody picking the best.
>>11354 I believe the problem is faggots that worship their babby's first [insertgenre]. Just in CRPG category there's a game with broken/shit everything other than the setting. Idea of a setting even. Or that one game with mediocre/bad everything, and proto SJW elements on top of that. You know which ones I'm talking about, because it's true.
>>11324 >>11340 You mean Diablo 2. Diablo is not a brainless clicklooter.
>>11346 >Hm, I can't seem to find Front Mission (TBT) and Front mission: Gun Hazard (2D Platformer). I think both are very enjoyable games, what do others think? There's a Front Mission in TBT. >I haven't played original Stalker as I heard it was less immersive but absolutely loved Call of Pripyat for its immersion, heard others saying it was the best game of the series too so it might do better as a showcase game of the series. You heard wrong. SoC blows CoP out of the water in every area other than polish. >Modern AoW3 failed at that, though I somehow enjoyed AoW:Planetfall. Neither are worth adding to the list. You mean neither 3 nor planetfall are worth adding but AoW2 is?
>>11322 >>11312 >>11311 I guess we keep it then. >>11319 >is it too late for other dungeon crawler suggestions? Suggest as you like, but it'll need to be strong enough to knock something that's already on there off.
>>11358 I'd guess maybe Planescape and Arcanum? I'd agree on Planescape which I find fags let get away with far too much shit just on the strength of its writing but Arcanum is fine just a bit rough around the edges and way too ambitious for its own good.
>>11360 I should try SoC I guess and see it for myself. >You mean neither 3 nor planetfall are worth adding but AoW2 is? Yes. I consider AoW2:SM a classic. 3 is dumbed down modern take on AoW series. Planetfall is where those modern devs actually made an effort to make a good game but it's hard to say if it's worth considering to add it to the list so probably not. I think there was a thread on 8ch for Planetfall but it wasn't very active. >>11361 >but it'll need to be strong enough to knock something that's already on there off. If they are all great is there a need to remove any? Also >noticed Diablo and Arx Fatalis in Dungeon Crawlers >read OP Isn't it better to just get the list first, then figure out how to categorize and display, and only then bother with list looking good and other stuff that average anon checking the image wanting to play the bestest games doesn't really care about?
Metroid Fusion is a much more engaging and interesting game for the Metroidvania section, and cuts out a lot of the backtracking.
I won't be able to post any WIP tonight as net is fucked and I'm reliant on fucking (((mobile data))) with a tiny cap. As keeping Hybrid RPG seems to be the popular option would fags prefer to move Icewind Dale in there, cut it entirely or cut Fallout 2 and keep it? >>11363 >I should try SoC I guess and see it for myself. If you do ZRP is the standard fanpatch to use for a first playthrough, and make sure to do a hardsave every level transition on top of quick/autosaves. If you're a graphicsfag Photo Realistic Zone 2 or similar can be added but vanilla is fine for most. Contrary to what most fags will tell you first time players should keep the crosshair on in Cordon and maybe even Garbage then disable it for muh immersion: crosshair width shows accuracy and things like weapon condition degrade it beyond what you'll see in simple stats, it also helps you understand how stances and movement affect accuracy you've played CoP so you'll probably be fine but that's general advice. >If they are all great is there a need to remove any? Limiting space is what tends to force fags to really pick the best of what's available. >noticed Diablo and Arx Fatalis in Dungeon Crawlers The 'how to define Dungeon Crawler' debate played out and fags preferred going with the wide definition of just crawling in a dungeon over something narrower but less intuitive like blobber. >Isn't it better to just get the list first, then figure out how to categorize and display, and only then bother with list looking good and other stuff that average anon checking the image wanting to play the bestest games doesn't really care about? Categorisation autism is half the fun. >>11322 >If there are only X games in a category, and we need X + 2 to fill a row evenly, then either let the row be short or use a double-wide cover (or remove a double-wide cover, in the case of the JRPG section). The number of games per row is totally arbitrary and should have no bearing on the contents of the chart. Obviously the cap is pretty arbitrary but it's important to limit slots somehow so fags are forced to make the tough calls. I agree I should be less autistic and just live with gaps where they're absolutely necessary though, better that than filler.
>metal arms >essential TPS >but no EDF games >scribblenauts >essential puzzle >but no panel de pon/tetris attack >prey >essential fps >no moh airborn >animal crossing >terraria >no dqb >no smrpg >meatgoy >shovelgoy >styx >no dynasty warriors games >no 2hu games >no ys >no harvest moon games >no magical ninja >no odin sphere >no games with gravity kitten NO MAGICAL POPN you faggots truly deserve your fate.
>>11364 That's exactly why it's a bad Metroidvania. Next you're going to say Monster Hunter World is the best in the series. t. someone who played and enjoyed both, but knows they don't belong on the list.
>>11367 >no 2hu games There's one just not the best one.
>>11367 >EDF >one of the most normalfag TPSes ever, worse than Gears of War >you literally just plink slow moving giants and then hold the fire button at their even more gigantic and slower mother >even QTEs have more player interaction >an entire fucking game about this >wanting it to make the list No. And I hope your mother dies at dawn.
>>11367 >faggot with shit taste who didn't read the last thread complains about missing games that are already on the chart while attempting to sage with the name field Stands to reason.
>>11367 >no moh airborn Airborn belongs on a hidden gem list not a best of all time list.
>>11368 Fair enough, but isn't the defining traits of metroidvania the exact same as adventure games anyway?
>>11370 >t. someone that has never played EDF get your shit together. >>11372 90% of that list doesnt belong on that list. i was simply pointing out gross juxtapositions.
It's gonna be difficult to finish this chart with all the memegames that have been popularized by /v/ hivemind.
>>11376 >90% of that list doesnt belong on that list. i was simply pointing out gross juxtapositions. What specifically do you have against Prey?
Can I get the current png to edit? >>11377 The lower right corner is absolutely fucked by it.
>>11381 >Can I get the current png to edit? It's an xcf. I can't upload the current version until I get a non-capped connection, hopefully tomorrow, but https://files.catbox.moe/zzof21.xcf is how it looked transferring all games across from the old version and before changes.
>>11382 Mercurial could have prevented this.
>>11383 At least you didn't say git.
>>11370 >standard normalfag response for "h-he doesn't like my garbage" Just think about it, if you stopped breathing, in all likelihood someone else will put that air to better use.
>>11367 >terrible taste >blatant weeb >can't even sage Go back to vch.
>>11367 >>11369 >no ys This is also there. Are you retarded or just blind? >>11370 EDF has flaws but it's not fair to compare it to GoW.
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>>11387 Chart forks when?!
>>11390 Fork it if you want, all you need is basic gimp abilities. This will help too https://files.catbox.moe/9g4dnm as it contains notes for drawing the grid and sizing the covers though realistically it wouldn't be hard to reverse engineer that.
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Hm, I don't think I see FTL. >>11366 If you enjoy categorization sure, just don't prioritize ambiguous limited space and shuffling to list quality and proper genres. And who is the list made for? People who haven't played the games that we want to indoctrinate before they get corrupted by normalfag shittaste where nearly bestests can't be afforded which means I'm in for some serious culling or people who want to play all the bestest games and where essential means ALL and BESTEST? Or perhaps make 2 list if culling is necessary - one minimalistic/essential, another expanded (from leftovers) + mods. Also wouldn't hurt having a text version for for easier searches. You can say IWD is more combat oriented BG so moving it away from for the sake of limited space isn't good. Same with Diablo and Grim Dawn. Personally I'd use "Is it similar to wizardry? Then it's a dungeon crawler" definition, it doesn't necessary have to involve dungeons. Also checked the wiki for definition but... picrelated RPG category can be removed altogether with some games moved to CRPG and others to Hybrid FPS. >>11367 Give your suggestions then, and your reasons. I haven't played half of the games on the list simply because I don't enjoy the genre, but for those that I did I provide. Simply throwing shit won't get anything done. >>11370 >I haven't played EDF4.1/5 coop on hardest/inferno. This is exactly why EDF has to be added.
OP, put Into The Breach in the turn-based tactics section. It's an unique game with much more manageable RNG than the usual TB game.
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>>11380 I personally dont like it, but its not a bad game. it's just very generic. doesnt belong anywhere near a best list, or an "essential" list. >>11387 >defending that list while calling someone a blatant weeb i put sage in all fields, like anyone should. but it apparently only stayed in one field after failing to post 3x >>11389 >ys i either never saw it, or i forgot i saw it. so both. >edf he said EDF was normalnigger tier even though its hated by them and then parrots the same invalid complaints they give. not worth reasoning with. >>11393 >give suggestions i was just pointing out how broken the list is. >EDF edf on hard solo also requires a great deal of strategy to complete. a straight run on air raider as well since the loadout requires planning. EDF on hardest/inferno on coop borderline becomes a tactical game, especially when you get into those later levels. >make your own list i have my own list. and its a great list. the best list.
>>11367 >implying Terraria should not be considered a great game >implying musoushit should Drop dead, faggot.
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>>11399 >2d knockoff minecraft is great and essential >fun giant beatemups about pushing front lines and holding choke points are not. i will agree that dynasty warriors games are not essential, but dw2 through dw8 outclass most of the beatemups on that list. either way a minecraft knockoff that adds nothing of actual substance while removing a whole dimension is not essential, nomatter how many years of autism you've personally dumped into it.
>>11402 >more dimensions == better game This is incorrect. >DW Every mission more or less plays the same(Capture bases, kill commanders) and this extends to the characters doing either the combo that has the widest range for crowds or does the most damage and loops for comboing a single target.
>>11402 I don't necessarily like Terraria as much as some and haven't ever particularly liked Minecraft other than very early on when it still had promise but calling Terrarria a 2D Minecraft Knockoff is retarded. It obviously had some degree of inspiration from the game but instead of being some half-baked ideasguy faggotry with tons of autistic irrelevant 'features' slapped on top it's a consistently designed game with actual shit to do in it. Minecraft is still fundamentally just a blockbuilding game with everything added on top that isn't directly related to that just being pointless busywork or meaninginless non-content. There is no difficulty or difficult situation you can get into and all of the combat and survival mechanics just detract from what the game was meant to do. Terrarria on the other hand is much more about fighting NPCs/exploring the enviornment. The autismbuilding is really a secondary goal and tool to help with that gameplay. There are clearly defined goals even if you can approach them in a procgen world and broadly at your own pace. Or think of it like this: minecraft is a bland sandbox game with shitty features haphardly attached to pretend it's got more to it. Terrarria is an exploration/combat/goal focussed game with a sandbox attached. You could conceivably just slap an end screen on when the intended content/final boss is done, add a 'keep playing in freemode' button and it'd then questionably be a sandbox at all. You can argue about how well Terrarria executes that particular formula but it's obviously very different in intent than Minecraft. The idea that it's somehow inferior for being 2D is also dumb but that's a given.
>>11402 >a minecraft knockoff that adds nothing of actual substance I'm glad we agree that DQB can be left out then and Terraria kept on there.
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>>11404 i never said adding a dimension would improve it. i said that 2d minecraft removed it in addition to stripping out a ton of other things minecraft did. and added in nothing of note. if terraria became 3D it would just be one of those other 3d minecraft knockoffs. >>11405 both minecraft and terraria are bland. neither of them deserve to be anywhere near that list. >>11406 >t. someone that never played dqb dqb is a linear game with a set of challenges/missions. it has 4 levels and an ending and a boss at the end of each level. its more similar to dark cloud than minecraft. infact its almost identical to dark cloud except it simplified the combat and removed the proceduralyl generated stuff in favor of a large designed map. but where it simplified the combat and jrpg leveling/gear/weapons it replaced that with zelda style gear and it focused on building/exploration instead.
>>11407 >both minecraft and terraria are bland. neither of them deserve to be anywhere near that list. Possibly, but claiming Terrarria is merely a 2D Minecraft knockoff is just outright incorrect. It's the sort of statement that only makes sense if you've not actually played them both and just looked at a few screenshots or some gameplay footage and guessed. All you've done is ignore the fact you said something provably wrong and swapped to calling them both bland instead. >said that 2d minecraft removed it in addition to stripping out a ton of other things minecraft did What other things, out of interest? >and added in nothing of note You may not like them, hell I don't particularly like them, but Terrarria clearly does things differently to minecraft. As I already said it's much more focussed around dealing with set goals/challenges/bosses/threatening locations not just autismbuilding. You could build a comparable game without even using procgen if you wanted, it pretty much functions on you building up gear to tackle a hostile location or boss to unlock hard unlock by outright necessary equipment or soft unlock by being unlikely to survive without certain prerequisites the next challenge/location/boss/whatever then repeating the resource buildup for the next challenge when you feel ready. You could even just have that exact same gameplay in an outright level based game and formalise the restart. Now I don't necessarily like the way Terrarria goes about doing it as I find it pretty annoyingly grindy and quickly repetitive but that's obviously not how minecraft plays at all: try cutting minecraft into cyclical levels and it just doesn't apply because there's only the autismbuilding and pointless additional content layered on top of it.
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I'm not trying to be a high-horse fence sitting snob here, but I feel so sorry for you, OP. Having to row through all this autism.
>>11409 >>11407 Also NPCs but in Terrarria those are really best thought of as another form of resource you grind to unlock. Like I said I don't necessarily enjoy the grind-heavy approach Terrarria took but its obviously different to minecraft. Another key difference is how building works where in minecraft anything beyond a dirt hovel is purely down to player choice or aesthetics while in Terrarrria a lot of it acts as another bit of progression mechanic and tends to be much more functional than aesthetic as a result.
>>11409 >>11405 >procgen Youre right about everything but using this term. Terraria generates the entire world at game start from a seed so what you mean is randomly generated once at game start not procedurally generated forever as you play. This distinction is important to me.
>>11411 I come for the autism. You learn more about your own opinions on a subject by arguing/debating with others or at least by observing their arguments than with any other method. It's like that old thing about teaching others helping you to truly learn a subject because you don't tend to actually think about the parts you just took for granted until you're challenged on it. Before these two threads, for example, I'd have struggled to properly explain the difference between Hack 'n' Slash and Beat-Em Up even if I felt like I could tell them apart intuitively and now I've got a workable definition of both. Or how I never really considered the difference between Strategy and Tactics or between RPG, ARPG and JRPG until various autistic genre definition threads showed up. Diablo being superior, in my opinion, to Diablo II is something I was unable to explain until getting into arguments with multiple anons who fundamentally disagreed. The whole benefit of anonymity is to have unrestrained autistic slapfights about any subject without lasting implications for being wrong or without someone waving their post count/background around to win. It's quickly clear when someone can't truly defend their point when all they can do is argue for it with no outside influence: more than once I've realised I was the retard letting nostalgia or some other subjective factor override the actual facts and it's also a lot easier to admit that to yourself when you're anonymous. This sort of debate and general improvement in knowledge that results from it is what higher education was for before it was corrupted in the mid-late 20th century. Now it's just safe space dogma spouting. Entirely off-topic but the reason Mark ended up rubbing me the wrong way was how often he'd just unilaterally abuse his position as BO to shut down debate where he was losing or even de facto ban entire topics he simply didn't like.
>>11407 >i said that 2d minecraft removed it Yes, if removing a dimension makes it worse in your eyes then it's not a stretch to assume you believe Minecraft is better for having that extra dimension. >in addition to stripping out a ton of other things minecraft did Such as? Terraria has an overwhelming advantage over Minecraft in terms of content and challenging content at that.
>>11414 How fags define procedurally vs randomly generated is far too varied. Some claim randomly generated means slotting together premade sections while procedurally is algorithm driven. Others go with a definition like yours where procedural simply means generating as you walk vs random generation being once-and-static. Then you get weird edge cases like early space games which couldn't store an entire galaxy so they just stored a fixed seed and generated the bubble of space around you only so the world was consistent and places could be revisited but simply didn't exist outside of what you were directly perceiving: a classic example of trading off run-time processing power for what's functionally a very high rate of compression.
>>11417 >Such as? Terraria has an overwhelming advantage over Minecraft in terms of content and challenging content at that. What matters isn't necessarily sheer amount of content but meaningful content or non-filler content. Terrarria still wins there of course but you could trivially add content to either game by just repeatedly adding functionally identical reskins of existing content or massively extending gear treadmills. Most of minecraft's content really falls into that shitty sort like pointless food or animal variants that are technically content but add nothing.
>>11419 I did have that distinction in mind but I neglected to include it in my post, my apologies.
>>11420 I still think you're right. Terraria has more content measured either by total content or only by meaningful content though the latter does reduce it a bit since it can be a bit grindy/repetitive sometimes or at least by my standards.
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>>11415 >explain the difference between Hack 'n' Slash and Beat-Em Up blood >the difference between Strategy and Tactics scale >the difference between RPG, ARPG and JRPG hair If you're enjoying this, more power to you, this kind of stuff exhausts me after a certain point.
>>11422 >If you're enjoying this, more power to you, this kind of stuff exhausts me after a certain point. The trick is to only bother arguing with fags who will do it in good faith.
There are no Apaches in Terraria.
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where is ace of spades
To ascertain what qualities of a game are desirable or not, we should do a few comparisons of "good" versus "bad" in the same genre. Example for dungeon crawlers: The Bad: Mary Skelter >long, boring dungeons >most traps do too little damage to matter and are easily avoidable anyway >fighting is reduced to "click the overpowered multi-target move" >low actual variety in skills / classes, mostly because of the above (don't have to worry about hitting the monsters' weaknesses, etc) >money is always plentiful >bosses are made useless by attack debuffs >most jail bonuses are useless >collected items are mostly useless after the beginning of the game >vast majority of missions are just grind >mana (SP) is pretty much infinite after the beginning of the game >death is of no consequence, you just revive after the fight >as if the difficulty wasn't casual enough, you can save at any point in the game >there is not even a good plot to save it The Good: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon >dungeons are shorter and not a tedious chore >huge variety in characters and their builds >items are extremely useful and backpack space is limited >money is limited, have to make decisions what to buy and what to give up >bosses are tougher >PP (or "mana") is limited - have to think your fights through, and maybe avoid them >hunger mechanic makes every step matter >fights are interesting - have to care about weaknesses, distance, status, etc. >death actually matters - though you can use reviver seeds to resurrect (which cost a lot and take up valuable backpack space), if you don't have them and one of your main character dies, you lose and have to redo the dungeon >story is something you actually can't wait to see develop I'd like to see examples for FPS, RPG, etc. from people more familiar with those genres. Maybe then we will see that some of the "genre staples" don't actually deserve to be on the list.
>>11428 Sounds reasonable particularly for picking between the weaker games in a category that's already pretty full. >>11427 Not sure it's actually that strong a game overall. Also what version?
>>11429 >>11427 I think AoE deserves a spot. It's prime imageboard vidya grounds. Get rid of Crysis to make room for it or something.
>>11431 Crysis is actually a good game though, benchmarking use aside. Warhead even better than vanilla.
>>11428 The problem with this is that most of your complaints boil down to >there's not enough variety >there's not enough challenge >resource management is too easy >it's not interesting Which can be applied to any type of game at all. It doesn't tell us much about dungeon crawlers. In order for this kind of thing to have any meaning you need to find out what the desirable constants in a genre are. The problem then is that most of these are also universal and really fucking intuitive. For example: Within FPS, there's not much similarity between say, Quake and Rainbow Six. They're contrasting games held together by superficial similarities. But since FPS are (ostensibly) about shooting, you often get comments on the "feel" of a game's shooting. So you could say that player feedback is a big deal in FPS. Action games are mostly about controlling the character, so you could say that in those games responsive controls are essential. But what game DOESN'T want good feedback or good controls? Would you play DMC if all the weapons felt like shit? Would you play Quake if it had awful input lag? Of course you wouldn't. You wouldn't play an RTS without strategy, but what game wouldn't benefit from more depth? And when you step beyond this really obvious stuff it instantly devolves into taste. Games get praised for being fast and manic when others in the same genre get praised for being slow and strategic, or simple and elegant versus complex and detailed or any number of other things. Isolating the essential parts of a genre from simply what makes a good game is harder than it seems. I was gonna save this point for when OP got to revising the shoot-em-up region but it's partially a more extreme example of the same thing: When you take a genre that's incredibly low to the ground in gameplay, there really isn't much you can objectively value beyond "it doesn't control like shit" "it doesn't sound like shit" "it doesn't look like shit" "it's fun". It's not unknown for players to pick one game in a series and refuse to commit to any others because when everything is gameplay the tiniest changes are perceived as huge differences. The new list proposed in the previous thread has several games I personally wouldn't touch with a barge pole but I'd still run with it because accounting for taste is impossible. Within the scope of this chart the only solution is to list off the most influential games and let those interested find their pet games themselves.
>>11434 >Which can be applied to any type of game at all. It doesn't tell us much about dungeon crawlers. Sure most games want variety, challenge, etc. But in different genres those things will take different forms. And different genres prioritize different things, for example FPS emphasis on fast reaction instead of planning. >Games get praised for being fast and manic when others in the same genre get praised for being slow and strategic, or simple and elegant versus complex and detailed or any number of other things. A "fast" shooter will have other things designed around that, and a "slow" one around the other - for example, no reload or weapon limit in the fast one. You can have different games in one genre - I don't see the issue. >Within the scope of this chart the only solution is to list off the most influential games and let those interested find their pet games themselves. So it's just popularity now? You can look that up easily on wikipedia or your favorite journo "top ten games of this decade" report. I don't get your point, to be honest. So what if most games benefit from the same things? Then just list those. But it's better than giving up quality for "influence". Totally defeats the point of this chart.
>>11359 Bad habit on my part.
>>11434 >But what game DOESN'T want good feedback or good controls? Probably autistic simulators. Receiver for example was designed to have shitty controls for an fps.
SS13 is a must.
>>11465 >So what if most games benefit from the same things? Then just list those. Because then this sort of in-genre comparison doesn't say anything useful. If you were actually comparing like for like, as in games that are similar but are more or less successful in specific ways, then it might be interesting because it would discuss the edge cases as to why some games go on the chart and others don't e.g. what exactly makes one PMD game better than the others. This would also give us a much better idea as to what's really important to a genre because it's specifying the parts that make a cut. But the example given wasn't that, it was "game that does generic things wrong" versus "unrelated game that does generic things less wrong", and this supposedly says something about genres. I didn't make it clear enough that the second bit was referring only to >>10453. It's not about the rest of the chart, that has it easier. I'm sure as fuck not going to play Raiden or R-Type by choice, but other people would, and there's no way I can argue they shouldn't be there at all. That's what I'm getting at with accounting for taste. The genre's so old, varied and dedication-heavy that the only sane option is to list a wide variety of influential games and see what sticks. And hopefully that'll be a guide for anyone who does get interested to find their own niche. >>11496 Fine point. You could say the same thing about survival horror games however true it really is for them
>>11497 SS13 is one of those games like Arma where the base is pretty shit and its almost entirely the community that creates the quality.
>>10880 Why is NWN2 and even kotor2 in RPG and not CRPG? Even DOS:2 is more in the same vain of a CRPG than morrowind, thats stupid They are all great games but seeing them in those catagories seems wrong. Especially NWN2. original guitar hero should be in rhythm and music >no mario party in party games diddy kong racing needs to be on there also im not seeing any big multiplayer games WoW and PSO2 should be on there somewhere
>>11501 >WoW and PSO2 should be on there somewhere SORRY NOT PSO2 THAT WAS A TYPO I meant Phantasy Star Online Eps 1 & 2, gamecube version.
More FPS critique >republic commando Seriously? It's awful have you played it? >Tron, Prey, Undying, Soldier of Fortune, Postal, Painkiller, Serious Sam, Juarez, Crysis (expansion) These are all 7/10s what are they doing next to Doom. >ut99 and ut2004 why? Just pick one. Ut99 is better there I said it. >duke and blood Again just pick one, Duke obviously. >oppfor If you are going to put Quake 1 on then what kind of hipster puts a Gearbox expansion on instead of Half-Life. and add in Halo.
>>10936 >Pathfinder:Kingmaker I recall the threads made about that game upon its release. It was pozzed to hell and back. Why should it be included? The problem with pathfinder at release was the rediculous amount of bugs that quite literally finishing the game impossible for some people. Its since been polished and fixed. There was also the difficulty. Some ni/gg/ers got upset they would get destroyed on the hardest difficulty right off the bat. I think it fucked with peoples perceptions of how shit they really are and it made them very very upset. Its the best CRPG iv played since NWN2 and BG2, by far. Its very long. The mechanics and story are great, kingdom building I guess isnt for everyone but the devs patched it so you can disable that if you so choose cos so many babies cried about it.. As for the pozz stuff, thats from faggots who never actually played the game like >>10937 There is an orc companion, one of 7 who aside from being a terrible companion for his shit stats is a literal cuck. You have the option to fuck him and cuck his girlfriend or you can fuck his girlfriend and cuck him. I enjoyed the game just find on literally all my playthroughs with never using either of them anyway, cos like I said he has shit stats and the girl is annoying. I got 525hours on kingmaker says steam so I'm very curious to what this faggot thinks is so pozzed about it. The pozzed crpg awards go to pillars of eternity 1&2 and numenuara or whatever it was called.
>>11501 >Why is NWN2 and even kotor2 in RPG and not CRPG? CRPG is 'things like infinity engine games' which is a lazy way to do it but there you go. It could probably include some other games and it's not a particularly well named genre since it tends to exclude the earlier games. Also that's NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer and not base NWN2, important because MotB is actually good. >no mario party in party games Too much RNG and shallow minigames. Crash Bash is just the same thing executed better. Kind of like CTR weirdly, with the clone improving on the base. >WoW and PSO2 should be on there somewhere If MMOs were going on at all games like GW1 or pre-NGE SWG would go on before WoW even got a look in. >>11502 Anons preferred the first Phantasy Star when it came up last thread.
Stalker is an FPS. Rest in Hybrid RPG are RPGs. I know EYE is kinda debatable but not really.
>>11507 Yes I understand its MoB, but >things like infinity engine games Thats stupid, sorry, they're is a clear genre here even if its not been defined by the industry properly. RPG games that are made to play out like a tabletop DnD type game. How are Phantasy Star and Phantasy Star Online even comparable, one is a RPG ala final fantasy another is a lobby based action rpg with diablo style loot
>>11507 I do think MMO's should be on there.
>>11504 >likes halo >thinks original unreal is unreal tournament underage please leave
>>11504 >Seriously? It's awful have you played it? I wouldn't go as far as awful but I actually agree with you that it's not as great as everyone remembers. It's like a spongier and inferior version of Brothers in Arms with a neat Star Wars setting. However anons tend to like it and the chart isn't just my opinion. >These are all 7/10s what are they doing next to Doom. Plenty of them are good, it's just hard to compare up to Doom. >why? Just pick one. Ut99 is better there I said it. That's Unreal, technically Unreal Gold which bundles in the expansion pack and I think included an engine update, not UT99. Different games. >Again just pick one, Duke obviously. Duke 3D drops hard in quality after the first Episode. Actually even the first episode of Duke 3D isn't that great in my opinion see: Death Row but again anons love it. Blood on the other hand is actually a good game throughout and is the best Build Engine game. >If you are going to put Quake 1 on then what kind of hipster puts a Gearbox expansion on instead of Half-Life. Another anon's suggestion last thread but Opfor is actually better once you cut out the influence and nostalgia. Half Life's middle section drags and opfor adds in a bunch of interesting weapons + more variety. Only place it really fucks up is using squad control as a gimmick. >and add in Halo. No.
>>11508 >>11510 System Shock 1 is also not an RPG by the same metrics. 2 is.
>>11512 >RPG games that are made to play out like a tabletop DnD type game. There's games in Dungeon Crawler and base RPG that follow that, and I don't think you could say games like Fallout or Underrail really match that description. However as per usual if fags would prefer to widen the definition of CRPG it can be discussed. >How are Phantasy Star and Phantasy Star Online even comparable, one is a RPG ala final fantasy another is a lobby based action rpg with diablo style loot I asked in the last thread and the only response was just stick the base one in. >>11513 I'd be happy to stick them in but there's no need to give them their own section when there are basically 2-3 worth talking about and they can just go in RPG or hypothetically ARPG if needed. Last thread anons weren't keen on the idea though.
>>11520 >However as per usual if fags would prefer to widen the definition of CRPG it can be discussed. if your view of CRPG is just inifinty engine + a few extras then yes it should be >I asked in the last thread and the only response was just stick the base one in. brainlets, entirely different games and i doubt anyone actually played the original phantasy star but either way its a JRPG PSO ep 1&2 should be in action RPG >>11520 You got fighting, 3d fighting and visual novels, I think MMOs make the cut. Also missing rogue squadron and Flight Simulator 95 from flight.
>No Civ games anywhere this list reeks of 8ch tbh
>>11514 >>11516 >muh halo bad >muh half-life 2 bad >mediocre games belong on the list because normies think they are mediocre lol
>>11542 They're both trash, kill yourself.
>>11540 Alpha Centauri is the best civ and it's on there. The only game that comes close to that level of greatness is IV.
>>11536 >Also missing rogue squadron There's Rogue Leader I guess.
>>11498 I still don't get your point. We're trying to decide what is quality enough to put on the chart. For that, we need to know what is good and bad and run the games by that. And not all of these points are generic. For example, in a shooter there will be no classes or skills, but on the other hand weapons - so that is what will be rated.
>>11544 They are trash that is better than easily half your list. Soldier of Fortune is on this list you pleb. b-burr durr half-life 2 is overrated. Fucking brainlets man. >>11550 >o-only one civ game Meanwhile there are 3 C&C games in RTS.
>>11560 >Meanwhile there are 3 C&C games in RTS. Read this thread and the last one.
>>11562 Why?
>>11504 The only downsides I saw in Republic Commando were the peashooter default blaster, bulletsponge B2s and that goddamn bridge. >Juarez Gunslinger is absolutely great. Just short.
Is Flatout 2 one of the best arcade racing games with destruction? I'd say it is, but I'm not sure, because of nostalgia. I have fully replayed it at least twice and still liked it.
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Needs to be in Run and Gun.
>>11570 >Is Flatout 2 one of the best arcade racing games with destruction? I think it's pretty good similar to Burnout 3 and 4 in appeal.
>>11574 Nice jpeg artifacts.
>>11409 >You may not like them, hell I don't particularly like them, but Terrarria clearly does things differently to minecraft so does roblox.
>>11582 The argument was about whether or not or not Terrarria is a '2D Minecraft Knockoff'. Whether or not it's actually a good game is a different issue entirely.
>>11501 >WoW should be out there. No. Just no. And fuck off.
>>11583 i mean; it is. saying it has some extra bells and whistles that minecraft doesnt have, does not exclude it from being a knockoff. roblox is also a minecraft clone, but it does alot more than minecraft too. so is that one thats like call of duty, and that one with voxels. its all just minecraft shit. saying "but the call of duty minecraft clone has guns!" does not make it "essential" "unique" or "good" >>11585 honestly no MMO should be on an"essential" list. "essential" is intended to be a list of games that everyone should play, especially fans of a given genre. good MMOs do not currently exist. they may have been fun when they were new, but telling anyone "you must play <insert literally any MMO>" is only something a paid shill would say. its like putting warframe on the list. was warframe fun at one point? maybe. but is it essential that anyone reading this list go download and play warframe if they havnt done so? absolutely not. now, if you consider yourself a fan of first person shooters but you've never played blood? go play it. fan of 3rd person platformers but never played sm64? go play it.
>>11586 >i mean; it is. saying it has some extra bells and whistles that minecraft doesnt have, does not exclude it from being a knockoff. Terrarria is much more than a few bells and whistles over minecraft. Being inspired by the game is not the same as being a clone.
>grand strategy games >no Victoria 2 Add it or your chart is objectively shit
>>11589 I've never heard of it. Why should it be added? What does it do that sets it apart from other grand strategy games?
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>>11586 >You can place blocks therefore it's a minecraft knockoff >Roblox is also a Minecraft clone Are you retarded or just pretending?
>>11590 Victoria II is one of the Paradox GSG games. It's pretty good if a bit autistic.
>>11588 no, its just 2d minecraft with a few bells and whistles added on. if you disagree then name what exactly does it do objectively well? what does it do differently that makes it worth playing? dont name anything minecraft already does, and dont name things that are just a product of minecraft being 2D instead of 3D.
>>11590 It's mostly focused around a mildly complex pop system, politics and indirectly managing your nation. You don't spend magic points to promote farmers to craftsman, they do it themselves if the given environment makes it possible/encourages it. You won't be conquering territory all the time unlike other GSGs, it's about managing your government. It also has a resource and economy system with different resources in all parts of the world. The economy can crash by many factors, like a nation you get your rubber from having a revolution, getting occupied, etc. Like the other guy said, it's pretty autistic but really fun if you get past the initial learning curve.
>>11595 >if you disagree then name what exactly does it do objectively well? what does it do differently that makes it worth playing? Boss fights, defined goals/progression gear, gaining NPCs etc, limited world etc the question is purely if it is or isn't 2D minecraft it doesn't matter if it does it well. If it's done shittily it's just a bad game that isn't a minecraft clone. >if you disagree then name what exactly does it do objectively well? what does it do differently that makes it worth playing? Again I'm just saying it's more than a '2D Minecraft Knockoff'. it doesn't matter if that makes it worth playing. The truth of the statement that it's a minecraft clone doesn't depend on it being a good minecraft clone. >dont name anything minecraft already does, and dont name things that are just a product of minecraft being 2D instead of 3D. Minecraft does not do organised raids, boss fights yes it added The End as a bad terrarria knock-off but that's content that goes nowhere and was added randomly late game not the game's focus or handle the idea of gathering resources, including NPCs, to gatekeep new content.
>>11594 >Paradox So it's shit.
>>11602 Pre-CK2/mana-spam Paradox are fine.
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I'll agree with >>11519 and now deleted post anon that SS1 and Stalker should moved as they aren't RPGs at all while others can be moved to CRPG and ARPG as per Option 3 of >>11308 minus the length autism. Pretty sure average anon has enough brainpower to figure out that if it looks like RPG but is in ARPG category then it's RPG with action as a main focus, if it looks anything else with RPG elements, then it's anything else with RPG as a main focus. Also add Metro, the first one. And damn, Dungeon Crawler category is fucked up, using "it's underground" as genre definition is just too stupid. IIRC Etrian Odyssey has aboveground segments so it shouldn't be there with Arx Fatalis even though EO is a pure dungeon crawler. As for going full nerd-essential, choose one of DOOM, DOOK or WOOLF and cull the rest or figure out the criteria for inclusion and exclusion of "essentials" because it's still not clear to me and I can add way more suggestions for culling as way too many similar games are on the list including those that are simply outdated and inferior to others >>11507 >CRPG is 'things like infinity engine games' which is a lazy way to do it but there you go. Yep, too lazy, I disagree with this definition too. Either move all those games to RPGs or move RPGs to CRPGs which is I think preferable because both Action-RPG and Japanese-RPG are "RPG"s. Just take a look at what we have: KotOR is like BG but in 3rd person, FNV is Fallout but in 1st person and then we have gibberish with games that use and don't use similar to DnD ruleset both in RPG and CRPG categories. I agree with >>11586 anon that no MMO should ever be on the list.
>>11608 >WOOLF ?
>>11609 My guess is wolfenstein
>>11609 Oh, it's 2001, not the old one.
>>11611 >>11610 Ah, makes sense. 2009 had neat ideas but in a bland game.
STALKER is primarily an FPS series with minor RPG elements.
>>11593 You're the stupidest fucking faggot I've seen in my entire life and your post got fisted right out of your ass.
OP here: still no connection other than (((mobile data))) and that's apparently at ~80% of the monthly cap. Will post something as soon as normal service resumes but if it's down for a long time someone else can always use the xcf that was posted instead. Hopefully it'll be fix by the end of the week.
>>11707 By the way, thanks for doing this. It's needed and appreciated.
>>11707 And now we're at 100% of the cap and I'm being charged per mb. Cap resets on the 19th so the proper connection isn't back by then I'll be back worst case. Downloaded Sil after someone suggested it last thread so at least I have something to autism in the meantime. >>11855 At least it's fun.
Divinity: Original Sin 2 is a complete SJW pozzed shitfest. More than that, it's unpolished, unfinished piece of turd. They hired some pozzed Bioware fags to write for the game and it shows. The first game is superior.
>>11893 First game gets too easy about halfway. Could you remind me what pozz is in it?
>>11893 careful with those buzzwords reddit your trying a bit too hard its mechanically a good challenging game, learn to look over a few aspects you dont agree with
>>11936 you probably think youre a clever epin trollinger screeching reddit then reddit spacing yourself but youre not and this autism youre trying to start has been stale and tiresome for years
>>11936 >mechanical good It's an isometric clickfest.
>>11922 It's everywhere from the story to the characters to the voice acting. There's no epicness or moral character to any of it. It's exactly the type of bland garbage by and for blue haired lesbians. >>11936 what a faggot
Tekken 5 needs to be replaced with Tekken 7. Runescape 2 / Oldschool Runescape is missing. Path of Exile is missing.
>>11957 >It's everywhere from the story to the characters to the voice acting. There's no epicness or moral character to any of it. It's exactly the type of bland garbage by and for blue haired lesbians. Can't blame you for SJWs getting to you with all the bullshit in games and other media but the game wasn't as bad as you describe it, it was actually good.
>>11962 Yeah, I know it's not all bad. The gameplay is solid and the co-op campaign multiplayer is unprecedented, afaik only DoS 1 has done it. That's why I have bought two full priced copies of the game (one for me and one for my friend) back when the game was still in early access. I've clocked in over 230 hours into it. Game is still pozzed trash tho and I'm not holding my breath for their next game Baldur's Gate 3...
>>11961 >OSRS Maybe before it got fucked by jagex.
>>11936 As we discussed in a previous thread, no poz of any kind should be allowed on the chart. Give an inch, and faggots and commies take a mile. Given what >>11966 says about it being pozzed, and assuming he isn't lying about his playtime, I don't think D:OS2 passes muster. I would like more concrete examples, however. Even if there's a single quest line where you help feminists/trannies/niggers overcome their oppression, that'd be more than enough to disqualify it. >>11961 >Tekken 7 Is there something really wrong with T5's mechanics that makes T7 the better choice? T7 has solid mechanics, but it's littered with stupid guest characters and has no single-player content - not even arcade mode. T7 is also a GaaS title, which means it won't be "complete" for another year or two at least, and it will ultimately become unplayable once the servers shut down. All other things being equal, T5 seems like a better representative of 3D fighting games/the Tekken series.
>>11994 >where you help feminists/trannies/niggers I remember something about a woman having a wife, and retarded dialogue with party members where they tickled my undead skeleton's bones after getting to high disposition levels. I assume there's a possibilty of some gay shit in such dialogues, depending on your character, if you talk to them about it. One of the available female party members is an edgelord. That's about all I can remember, I played it years ago. Does anyone know anything else?
>>11966 >gameplay is solid It's an isometric clickfest.
>>12007 Perfect buzzword, anon! You can now safely remove half of ARPGs from the list.
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To me, this is the best overall street racing game there is. It has great level design for all 4 maps (remix added the 4th, Tokyo), a large soundtrack with some songs I still remember clearly to this day, the assortment of different race types I like including one that is about finding the best route to a single checkpoint before others get there first, car customization is decent and easy to use if that's your thing, the selection of cars does the job, for reference Gran Turismo 3's selection to me is great, motorbikes are present and they're great to drive if you have the patience to get gud. There are also the abilities Zone, Agro, and Roar, each are specific to a class of cars or motorbikes. Zone is slow motion and sharper handling, Agro for ramming into whatever vehicle to send that vehicle flying, and Roar to blow other vehicles out of the way. Those abilities don't make the game easy, it's a difficult game, and there are times when you need luck to edge out another racer by a few hundred milliseconds or less, though it almost never happens if you don't fuck up more than once, even with a slower vehicle. There is no rubberbanding, so your position versus theirs will always be legitimate. The main problem with the game is it being exclusive to the PSP (no remix version), PS2, and Xbox. The Xbox has the best version since it runs better than on the PS2, which can even be felt using PCSX2. A workaround to slowness on PCSX2 is by increasing EE Cyclerate and enabling MTVU. And there's a PCSX2 version right now that has a fix for the noticably bad graphical problem in the "half-screen-ts-gui" branch, the stuff I'm linking is for Windows only: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/gregory38/pcsx2/branch/half-screen-ts-gui , and an outdated GSdx plugin which also works: https://invidio.us/watch?v=PFvhzGqYFrc
>>12027 I haven't posted on /v/ for a while and i got too lazy to participate in this chart threads, but saw this post on the overboard and i agree. By a comfortable margin Midnight Club 3 DUB Edition Remix is one of the best arcade racers on Gen 6 and probably the best there is regarding "tuning" street cars creatively. I find scary this anon was the first one to mention such an important game and one of the 'hood trinity obligatory games back in the day along with GTA San Andreas and Def Jam Fight for New York.
>>12009 Good, their gameplay fucking sucks. Clicking to move around is the complete opposite of engaging, compelling action.
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>>12027 It's certainly one of the best arcade racers out there with the right soundtrack. If only there was a fix to the headlight glitch.
>>12027 Good post. >>12032 >engaging, compelling action It's almost as though dungeon crawlers aren't action games.
>>12035 Ask him about jrpgs
>>11954 Why would you out yourself as a brainlet that doesnt know how to set keybinds? >>11957 Ni/gg/er tier opinion, the story was good, gameplay was great, theres very few challenging games these days, i understand if you thought it was too hard. You did clear it on tactician right? Weak points were a few characters, but only 1 party member that really had a lot of it who I didn't use ever. Is that the pozz shit your talking about? >>11994 This is the cringiest post I'v ever read. Theres not a single game that doesn't have a bit of pozz on this list, its just a way for autistic 8ch cakecucks to try gatekeep. >a single quest where you help a feminist/trannies/niggers This should exclude every JRPG then. Lets go through some games on the list and see if they past this. >Majoras mask nigger npcs and gorons are literally black people being oppressed >Ultimate Spiderman MJ is a feminist and you help fury who is being oppressed by villians >timesplitters literaly nigger MC with feminist squadmate >warcraft 3 jaina >sleeping dogs isnt there a literal tranny character >splatoon stronk 'women' >morrowind more than a few nigger npcs you do quests for, almalexia, probably a feminist >NWN MOB the red wizard chick is a literal femenist >crash team racing coco a femenist >all jrps with 'gender undeterminded' cross dressing characters are trannies >tales of symph sheena a feminist genis a tranny >soul calibur ivy is a hardcore feminist This was stupid but just a quick gloss over the list to show how retarded that kind of exclusion is especially when it comes to RPGs with optional party members. >>12001 >woman having a wife so kill her >tickled your bones how is this any less cringy than the japanese 'humor' in jrpgs? >gay shit I think you can be gay if you want >edglelord okay so most FPS shooters are out then, cya protoype, batmam I shitted all over my keyboard a bit with this post but might point is, ruling anything out as 'pozzshit' when its not part of the core game is a mistake in my opinion. Especially when its optional party members, optional romance options, throwaway lines from irellevant NPCs. If there is this stuff core to the main story, I rule it out. If its optional and throwaway, fuck off. Literal horseshoe in action here, just like SJWs love to sperg if theres a just a scent of manliness being celebrated in a game. cakekike cocksuckers need to go back
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>>12040 >brainlet >ni/gg/er >cringeiest >cakecucks >gatekeep >edgelord >go back >the whole structure of that entire post If you'd called us incels you'd have set a record.
>>12041 I didn't call you edgelords, incel
>>12034 I linked a fix for that near the bottom of >>12027 , the easiest one is using the GSdx plugin from the download on that invidious video. The fix is very recent, and it's not integrated into master PCSX2 1.5 yet.
>>11600 >Minecraft does not do organized raids, boss fights or handle the idea of gathering resources, including NPCs, to gatekeep new content. Wow, it almost sounds like Terraria is a 2D treadmill grinding mmo version of Minecraft, no wonder why people love it. That's not sarcasm by the way, it explains a lot.
>>11994 >Tekken 7 Those are fair points; but T7 really did step up the game and brought the Tekken franchise to new highs. It made the game more accessible to newcomes without compromising the mechanics and has never been as popular and as supported as it is today. It is without a doubt the definitive Tekken experience in current day.
>>12053 Any one of Terraria's bosses can be beaten alone with action skills and planning.
>>12080 I was confused because of your post fuck-up but that makes sense, people play it for the treadmill grind though, whether you like that or not.>>12080
>>12078 Right, but it did all of that despite lacking core functionality. The game has received three years' worth of DLC and additional modes, and it still doesn't have: >arcade mode >tutorial of any kind >explanation of invisible game mechanics (clean hits) >single player mode other than treasure battle or the terrible cinematic story <but it has bowling though :^) Not to mention it's schizophrenic balance updates, where characters change every six months and reset everything you know about them. It should be disqualified for that reason alone if nothing else, because it practically reinvents itself twice a year and we have a six-month waiting period for games to be on the chart. SFV does many of the same things, and people rightly crucified that game for all its absent features; I don't understand why T7 continually gets a free pass for the same mistakes. When T7 gets to the end of its lifecycle and a customer can get the whole package at once, then we can discuss it replacing T5. Until then, I really cannot agree with you.
>>12053 >Terraria is a 2D treadmill grinding mmo Yes >version of Minecraft No. I mean obviously Terraria isn't an mmo but it does share the shitty extended-filler-as-content/progression idea. >That's not sarcasm by the way, it explains a lot. Yes. Remember it more or less has coop too.
FPS section needs Titanfall 2 in it.
>>12099 Well I don't. I play it for the challenge. Hardcore no-death playthroughs are very interesting (if also infuriating).
>>12121 I second this. >>12228 >Terraria should be on the chart because I play it for a nonstandard game mode The poz in the story mode alone should be enough to disqualify it.
>>12275 >poz in the story mode >Terraria What game are you thinking of, retard?
>>12280 Maybe he's talking about Party """""""""Girl""""""""".
>>12280 Upon further reflection, I was getting it conflated with Starbound, Chucklefuck's other game. My mistake.
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>>12299 Chucklefish was founded by Tiy, who had left Re-Logic (Terraria's developer) back in 2011, around Terraria's launch. The two companies have nothing to do with each other.
So can anyone tell me what's so good about Risk of Rain? I shoot enemies, gain a few levels, stronger ones appear and I die.
>>12304 Huh. Good to know.
>>12305 It's fun for a while and the music's great, but I don't see what makes people keep playing it. You eventually get enough items to kill everything on-screen and off-screen just by standing there with infinite stacks of them. It takes away the survival aspect of the game and it becomes pointless before you even reach the final boss.
>>12307 Does 2 fix this or is it the same power spike trivializing everything after you survive until about midway?
>>12307 Yeah but how do I get to that point? Because I keep dying at like level 7 or 8. I must be missing something. I once found an item that kept healing me all the time and that made it much easier. Is the game just about finding the proper items in time?
>>12330 Okay, I played a little more and I think I get it now. It truly is about getting as many items as you can. Still, I died on the second stage because of some magma worm or whatever. It seems you have to play the game as fast as you can to avoid the enemies getting stronger.
Net connection back: will post a WIP chart sometime tomorrow if fags are still interested.
>>12417 Yeah, I want to see it finished, but I'm tired of random fags coming outta nowhere and complaining about category definitions that were agreed upon a week or two before that. If it makes sense and serves a purpose in categorizing stuff, we should stick with it and move on to the next subject, or the thing will never get finished. Anons might burn out if it takes too long, too. I think any issues related to categories that we already went through should be ignored until we get something resembling v1.0.
>>12423 Also want to see it completed. I agree with this poster too, without progress people will give up so avoiding stagnation or regression (like redefining a genre) should be a fairly high priority.
>>12423 >random fags coming outta nowhere and complaining about category definitions that were agreed upon a week or two before that Yeah, it's pretty obvious when someone wanders in because he saw the thread pop up on the catalogue and didn't read the post history. >any issues related to categories that we already went through should be ignored until we get something resembling v1.0 I think that's a sensible limit.
>>12417 Yeah we're interested. I stop by regularly to check if any GIMP wizardry is needed but I see you got the hang of it I think. Clearly the bulk of the work is in the categorizations, but let's not obsess over those too much and keep things simple. As long as quality games are being added and inferior games are being removed then we're on the right track.
>>12441 >but I see you got the hang of it I think. Better than I was but there's more I could do if I was starting from scratch. >>12439 >>12424 >>12423 I guess that makes sense. Games in first, jiggle genres around later.
Can someone recommend a similar game to Risk of Rain to compare? I don't really like that one. But the concept is cool.
>>12462 I finally beat the game and I'm unimpressed. It's not really difficult, even - just be lucky to get enough of the broken items early (especially drones). Then just find the teleporter, and rim the fuck away until the timer passes (killing enemies easily later). You don't really modify your strategy regardless of what items you get - there's no "I play this way if I get this item, but another way if I get this one". Most item sprites also don't really tell you what do they do so you'll have to inspect the item database. There's lots of enemies. They look ugly and with the small ones you can't even tell what they're supposed to be - not that it matters since you deal wtih them all in the same way (only the flying ones require some attention). Things that look like walls often can be passed through - I got stuck this way twice because I thought something is a wall, but actually I had to go there. Soundtrack is good, as another anon has said. I also like the monster / item descriptions. This game has potential. Clearly, effort has been put here but it falls short IMO. Unless there's something big I'm missing here (quite possible since this is the first game of its kind I've played). Oh, and there's lots of challenges and unlockable stuff! That's a great + for the game (even though some require you to do stuff like die 50 times). I'd rather have at least another character available from the beginning of the game though.
>>12423 >>12439 A lot of your categories rules are stupid though. I didn't really care when you faggots called it the 8ch list but as an original alog I take issue with so many retarded choices in the list if you are gonna call it Julays list. So I'm gonna give my input. The CRPGs games being all mixed up is such a clear example of either ignorance or stupidity it had to be pointed out.
>>12477 Okay, I've played some more yet again and must say that the additional characters do add significant variety and depth. It also plays better on the highest difficulty than on normal. However, my biggest gripe is still there - it's mostly the first two minutes or so that determine how the game goes. If you don't get 2-3 good items by then, you're fucked especially on the highest difficulty. So does anyone have a similar game for comparison?
>>12484 If you're going to bitch about categories put more effort into your post than "it's wrong, fix it." or expect to be ignored like the tard you chose to act like.
>>12484 On second thought, are you >>11608? If so I agree that RPG and CRPG should be combined, all of those games focus on Role-Playing so I don't see the point of the divide.
>>12495 No, but I agreed with him already and made my point. I think combining them is fine if it can't be agreed on a good definition for them otherwise.
What do you guys think about Octopath Traveler? Started playing a while ago and was impressed with the stories and voice acting. But then I thought I'd get to sneak through a mansion since I was playing Therion the thief. But I had to fight anyway and actually could easily smash those guards...doesn't make sense.
>>12493 Nuclear Throne?
>>12477 Risk of Rain mostly gets away on presentation in my opinion.
>>12495 >>12484 CRPG only makes sense if you say it means isometric turn-based rpg in which case it's a really bad name.
>>12493 The Binding of Isaac? I only played that game up to the Wrath of the Lamb expansion, so I don't know if the more recent additions/remake have fundamentally changed it. >>12507 The linear dungeon design makes me leery of it, although I haven't touched it myself. I seriously doubt it's good enough to be on the list unless it does something remarkable with the gameplay. >>12495 >>12498 >combining RPG and CRPG I suppose that'd be harmless enough, given that several entries in RPG are already top-down CRPGs themselves. I'd still prefer to keep the category bickering to a minimum until we can agree on the contents of each other category and vet each game there.
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>>12477 >>12493 play with the /v/ rules and if you can, with other anons. It makes the game 100x better
>>12443 >there's more I could do if I was starting from scratch What do you have in mind?
Where should a Worms game go? Run and gun? Somehow doesn't sound right.
right next to Scorched Earth
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>>12789 turn-based tactics, dumbasss
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>puzzle >no zachtronics games throw Spacechem on there pronto
>>12828 Substantiate your claims.
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See for yourself. Joking aside all Zachtronics games are good programming puzzle games with a lot of depth, and Spacechem is easy to get into but gets hard later on. The programming aspect isn't as immediately noticeable as other games by the dev. There are also many community challenges after you're done with the campaign.
Okay what do you think about a category for basically honorable mentions - games that are just really good but either don't have an appropriate category or they're simply outclassed in their category by the definitions of that category? I don't really have an example in mind but it seems like it would be good to have something like that for those games that seem like they should be in but logically don't fit anywhere with the format that we're working with. A sort of catch-all for high quality games that deserve representation but can't qualify for whatever reason.
>>12892 A general "Misc" section would do
>>12892 That's a great idea! We could also put there great games which already have a member of the series listed - for example Ace Attorney 1, PMD1, EO1, Deus Ex: IW (fuck you, it's great). Or ones so unique that you can't really assign a genre to them / they contain elements from many genres - Sid Meier's Pirates comes to mind.
>>12898 >Deus Ex: IW (fuck you, it's great) I wouldn't go as far as great but Invisible War is certainly a fine game judged on its own merits, just a complete step down from the original in almost every way.
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Hey, OP: any news on your internet connection? >>12892 If a game isn't good enough to qualify, then it shouldn't be on the chart. The situation where a game is good enough to be worth mentioning, but not good enough to be on a chart whose sole purpose is to mention good games is exceedingly slim. Clutter kills charts like this. What kind of games do you want to be in this hypothetical section that wouldn't be included in the chart?
>>12919 >Hey, OP: any news on your internet connection? Nothing good I'm afraid. Going to purchase a temporary subscription to a wireless alternative I guess. Such is life in rural bongland. Turning BT into a privatised ex-government monopoly was a mistake and now we have the worst infrastructure in Europe.
>>12956 >bongland God Almighty, I thought you were in some rural slavshit village. You have my utmost commiserations.
>>12919 Jet Grind Radio is a perfect example. It's on the chart in I think the music section. Thing is, it doesn't belong there. It doesn't fit a single one of the categories. But it was still good enough to get shoehorned in somewhere that it doesn't fit anyway.
>>12982 Does it fit under Sports?
>>12987 Why not? It's inline skating.
Because any sporting aspect of roller skating is absent from the game. It also has platforms but this does not mean it's a platformer as platforming isn't the purpose of the gameplay. THPS is a skateboarding game where the entirety of the gameplay revolves around skateboarding. JGR is a game where you have roller blades and do not use them for anything greater than what Sonic uses his SOAPs for in SA. If it were a game about the sport of rollerblading then yes it would be a sports game, but it is not a game about the sport of rollerblading therefore it cannot be considered a sports game due to its rollerblades.
Temporary solution worked out. Standby for a WIP sometime this week hopefully. >>12973 >I thought you were in some rural slavshit village. I wish. >>12982 It's better to weight up the need for a full misc section versus just slotting stuff in where it sort of half fits.
>>13032 >It's better to weight up the need for a full misc section versus just slotting stuff in where it sort of half fits. What? I never said it wasn't. I was asked for an example and gave one. Dismissing this because an example was made is disingenuous. The idea to me was to create a place to hold games that fall under unique circumstance and don't make sense anywhere in the chart. I don't understand the aversion to having an open mind and seeing if such a miscellany was added would be useful or not. Entertaining an idea is not commitment to that idea. Though dismissal is a commitment. I want to iterate this strongly - there was only one objection and that objection was given rebuttal. This rebuttal is accurate and applicable, it validates the concept. Due to the nature of this rebuttal shutting the opposition the fuck down from any honest intellectual standpoint lmfao this very rebuttal is now being used as an example of why the option is a bad one. I will for now take it on good faith that this was simply not thought through. But I will not tolerate lack of integrity.
>>13049 Buddy, I'm literally on the autism spectrum and you're too autistic for me. >Jet Grind Radio It's a 3D platformer, albeit a clunky one. I watched about 20 minutes of gameplay and that's clearly what the point of the gameplay is: navigate a 3D environment in a novel way. The player character has floaty movement due to the roller blades, but if you want it moved out of Music then it should be moved to 3D Platformer (and honestly replaced with Jet Set Radio Future, because that game is much less clunky and has better mechanics).
>>13058 Radio future is casualized to move the gameplay away from the more focused goal of losing or nullifying the enemy in order to execute the spray paint mechanics. The only thing that is added gameplay wise is the ability to time pressing A or X on rails in order to maintain or gain speed. This also serves to casualize the game by removing challenge from the racing sections because you can just find a rail and press a button over and over and you're maxing out your speed with little effort against an inept cpu. If you would like to send the platforming challenges presented to you in the 20 minute video you watched I'd love to watch and be proven wrong about it being a game about platforming where the main challenges are your ability to jump from one platform to another. I would also like to know what you think about the fact that there are levels in these games with little to no platforms at all.
>>13049 >What? I never said it wasn't. I was asked for an example and gave one. Dismissing this because an example was made is disingenuous. A different anon asked for an example, not me. >I don't understand the aversion to having an open mind and seeing if such a miscellany was added would be useful or not I literally just said we should weigh up if one is needed or not when it seems like we can cover most of the same ground by sticking games in the closest category that covers them, like Total War going in Grand Strategy instead of some weird hybrid Tactics/Strategy section. A misc section would also end up with very odd combinations of games. If a misc section is indeed needed it'd be better to make misc sections for each genre (misc RPG, misc Tactics/Strategy) since they then still share something in common but I'd say the chart already has that: Hybrid RPG, Action Adventure, Third Person Shooter and to a lesser extent Simulation and Sandbox have all been interpreted very loosely
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>>13060 >what did you watch The first chapter where the player paints the bus terminal and fights off the police, and some later footage from a flashback chapter where the black dude with the boombox fights off knife-wielding thugs. I was distinctly reminded of the open areas in early 3D games like Super Mario 64 or earlly Tomb Raider, where you have something like a simple playground to move in, and the fun comes from figuring out how to navigate a simple environment (in Tomb Raider's case it also had more developed combat, but both gameplay systems pull their weight). >the main challenges are your ability to jump from one platform to another >levels in these games with little to no platforms at all A platformer is a game where the gameplay primarily focuses on navigating an environment using movement. Whether or not there are literal, actual platforms is secondary: a rocket jump map with only walls would be platforming. A platformer can have flat levels if the movement is engaging enough to support levels without jumping. If that still isn't good enough for you, call it an action platformer or an action adventure game or something.
Now while I was out was there a final conclusion reached on RPGs? I know some fags would like to just cull CRPG as being unclear which is odd when it's probably more clearly defined than Dungeon Crawler but there you go. If so I can make that change and if not I'll leave it and just focus on the games first and categories/length autism later as was suggested. >>13062 >>13060 Also on the subject of Jet Set Radio specifically I already said sometime in either the last thread or this one it'd be moved to 3D platformer see >>10861 though there were other anons discussing it. In a 'real' genre classification system you'd need a way to account for true hybrid games and the creation of categories for the games that cross the definition but if you try applying that here it'll make a messy chart that loses the ability for someone to just look at it and roughly grasp what a game plays like from what's around it excepting the noted dump category of Action Adventure. >>12684 Just better use of grid and some automation of resizing. Also text alignment. >>12789 TBT. >>12843 >Spacechem >babby's first programming: the game Honestly it's pretty good from what I remember but just not the type of game I enjoy as a puzzle game. >>12860 Can add it, unless there's a better Zachtronics game as an option.
>>13065 >CRPG It's a decent category that's sufficiently distinct from most RPGs. Let it be. I think we should move on for now. Why don't you post the latest WIP version? Lets take a look at categories with more than one row and see if we can trim them down. We could start by deciding which game is the worst in a category.
>>13070 I would remove all the NES games unless they truly do something special. I mean, Contra isn't better than the ones that came after it for example the one on the DS.
>>13062 >A different anon asked for an example, not me. That's irrelevant >rest of that paragraph My misunderstanding. >final paragraph Yeah I agree it would be a bunch of games that are only related to eachother in the fact that they're not specifically relatable to any one genre. >>13063 >first paragraph Alright I understand >last two paragraphs Would the rhetorical you really classify a platformer simply based on "it is movement focused"? Not a sarcastic question. >>13065 Yeah I was noticing discussion earlier, the game is mostly being focused on because I used it as an example then wouldn't shut up Honestly I figure the best scenario for a section like this would be to hold games while we're still figuring out which all games we even want and in the end likely scrapping that section by thinning and properly placing that section with whatever final categories we have. I figure it would be good to have to toss a game in so that people think to discuss it again and decide if it belongs in a category it might not fit in or if it should be totally excluded. I think of it kinda like them lines artfags use to give themselves a basis but eventually end up erasing entirely by the time the drawing is complete. A sort of structure to help in the progression of the chart but not necessarily a structure that should be visible or even known of in the final version.
>>13106 Super C is better than most of the Contras that came after it.
>>11516 kys gearbox shill.
>>10880 No Alien Soldier in Run and Gun?
>>13065 I'd rather see RPG gone but that's because I personally view CRPGs as games with focus on roleplaying. >>13070 Show me the distinction between KotOR, ToEE and BG. inb4 C stands of isometriC
>>13126 >Honestly I figure the best scenario for a section like this would be to hold games while we're still figuring out which all games we even want and in the end likely scrapping that section by thinning and properly placing that section with whatever final categories we have. I figure it would be good to have to toss a game in so that people think to discuss it again and decide if it belongs in a category it might not fit in or if it should be totally excluded. I think of it kinda like them lines artfags use to give themselves a basis but eventually end up erasing entirely by the time the drawing is complete. A sort of structure to help in the progression of the chart but not necessarily a structure that should be visible or even known of in the final version. That might not be a bad idea really. Keep a misc section at least during WIP.
>>13143 >inb4 C stands of isometriC To be fair it's more than just perspective: the way they play out in terms of combat feels very different too. Arguably the first Dragon Age is more like a crpg in a different perspective depending on the combat mode you pick for it.
>>13147 You gotta explain the difference to me then. I've played almost all the C/RPGs on the list and I can't draw even a blurry line between them.
>>13143 ToEE is an unfinished turd, BG is overrated and shouldn't be on the list, and KotOR is about Soy Wars, so I never touched it. I agree, however, that CRPG category shouldn't be limited to isometric games. >>13147 >combat mode It literally only changes the point of view, combat works exactly the same way. Saying that switching the camera from 3rd person to top-down is what turns it into a CRPG is stupid. RPG should be the default category for RPGs and "RPG"s. CRPG would be for games with exceptional roleplay and ARPG for games where action stands out the most. Let's just leave this argument be, for now. I'm sick of talking about RPGs and I can't talk about anything else, because I don't even know what the WIP chart looks like right now.
>>13126 >Would the rhetorical you really classify a platformer simply based on "it is movement focused"? Not a sarcastic question. There are obviously some exceptions like infinite runners, but the movement focus is what defines platformers. If you can think of any games that: >are obviously platformers >focus on something other than movement >aren't just action platformers, or action games with platforming elements then I would genuinely be curious to know of them. I can't think of any games which fit all three criteria. >>13142 If it isn't there, it should be, along with Gunstar Heroes. >>13143 >I'd rather see RPG gone but that's because I personally view CRPGs as games with focus on roleplaying. What?
>>13155 >What? RPG - Role Playing Game.
>>13150 >It literally only changes the point of view, combat works exactly the same way. Saying that switching the camera from 3rd person to top-down is what turns it into a CRPG is stupid. Not really any stupider than having dungeon crawler change what a game is just because it's in a dungeon. Or metroidvania.
>>13155 >Gunstar Heroes Euroshmup made in Japan.
>>13147 >Arguably the first Dragon Age is more like a crpg in a different perspective depending on the combat mode you pick for it. It is 100% a CRPG, its the way it was created to be played.
staples of all CRPGs imo >dice rolls >DnD like skills/feats systems >mostly isometric view, I understand some of them have more camera freedom like some NwN iterations and Kotor. >multiple classes for character creation
>>13214 oh and of course often they have a more of a roleplaying focus with an alignment system, whether implemented well or not
>>13150 >CRPG would be for games with exceptional roleplay What does exceptional roleplay even mean? Is that a quality thing? Genres don't work by quality.
>>13141 No half life is actually good enough to be an essential once you ignore nostalgia and arguments about its influence on the genre.
>>13258 >CRPG would be for games with exceptional roleplay and ARPG for games where action stands out the most >stands out the most <Is that a quality thing?
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I'll clarify what I meant by "stands out the most". Good games that are bad at the shooting part don't go into the Shooter category. Racing games that do realistic physics and hardware can't be lumped together with arcade racing games. That's an example of prominence of a certain component determining the category. ARPGs have more action than RPGs, so I think it's a good idea to put games with the best roleplay into CRPG category. It's really simple.
>>13263 Would you call Gate of Doom an ARPG?
>>13264 There's no roleplay whatsoever.
>>13106 >I would remove all the NES games We're really at this point?
>>13265 >Wizard (best attack) >Bard (immune to poison) >Knight (strongest) >Ninja (speed) >Magic bar >Spells >Upgrades to defense, mobility, magic powers, health, weapons >Afflictions of poison, confusion, being transformed into a pig >Slay dragons >Dungeons >Party If it isn't an RPG what is it?
>>13267 It's not a roleplaying game because it has no roleplay. It's a Beat 'em Up, or Hack'n'Slash, or Action-Adventure of some sort. A lot of games in those categories have magic, upgrades and afflictions. The Switch port of this game doesn't even have a roleplay tag, it's listed as "Action, Arcade, Fighting, Multiplayer" on some Nintendo site.
>>13269 That makes more sense thanks
>>13266 Hey, we were supposed to find games to remove. Do you have a better idea? Can you name a NES game that should be on the list for a reason that isn't "it was great back then" or "it set the groundwork for a genre / series" ? Maybe River City Ransom could stay, since it really is great and the remakes kind of suck (but still, the two enemy on screen limit is absolutely awful). There were a few good platformers, but they are mostly obsoleted and even if not, they are not already on the list so why should they be added? I loved games like Kabuki Quantum Fighter or Kamen no Ninja Hanamaru, but would I recommend them to someone today? Only if he cared to specifically play the classics. Can you give me a reason why OG Contra is in there anyway?
>>13263 >Good games that are bad at the shooting part don't go into the Shooter category. Racing games that do realistic physics and hardware can't be lumped together with arcade racing games I agree except I wouldn't use good or bad but how much the developer emphasised it. Otherwise you get things like Half Life 2 being action-adventure because it's bad at shooting but good at whatever the fuck it is action adventure counts.
Superior chart coming through.
>>13278 >Can you name a NES game that should be on the list for a reason that isn't "it was great back then" or "it set the groundwork for a genre / series" ? Many are represented already: Mario 3, Castlevania, Mega Man 2. Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads deserve to be added. (Battletoads NES is better than the technically superior arcade or SNES games, or the Genesis port, and is sure to be better than the remake, so it "still holds up" as well as anything could hope to.) I'd make a case for Zelda 1 but the franchise already has two reps, those picks are as good as any. Sweet Home could go in Horror, which is stuffed with multiple entries from a few franchises as it is, and it's more playable than early 3D survival horror imo. >Maybe River City Ransom could stay, Ironically that's the first thing I'd cut, it's a slow and clunky game that the NES can barely run, I don't think it's even a particularly good game on the system. Casual coop beat-em-ups with RPG elements and "funny" presentation have been beaten into the ground by now, why RCR and not Castle Crashers or Double Dragon Neon or whatever? Or even Mighty Final Fight? >>13278 >Can you give me a reason why OG Contra is in there anyway? Put it this way: NES Contra and Super C had arcade counterparts that are much less popular. So "literally Contra but on better hardware" has always been a thing, and the NES versions are just more liked. Contra 3 in particular has a bad case of SNES-syndrome: slowdown out the ass, mode 7 tech demo-ing, functions mapped to every button just because. Super C NES is still an outstanding pure action game with no fat. But Contra is one of those franchises where you can't get people to even sorta-agree on a best one.
>>13285 >a cluttered mess with too many games to distinguish from one another and too many genre categories This is why we're remaking the chart.
>>13288 Contra 4 for the Nintendo DS added more weapons (including upgrades), more varied enemies, the grappling hook and using both screens for the levels which adds some depth, kept its great soundtrack and didn't fuck up the difficulty. Why should it not go on the list over NES Contra? I love River City Ransom but won't be defending it. It has a lot of flaws, the chief one being the shitty 2 enemy limit because the NES couldn't deal with more. But can you tell me why should NES Castlevania be there instead of the million sequels? (disclaimer: never played the series).
>>13288 Zelda 1 doesn't belong anywhere on that list. If you want an 8-bit game like that then Golvellius and Golden Axe Warrior are better choices because they are outright better games and do the genre better in almost, if not every, way.
>>13295 In general, more =/= better. 16-bit sequels tend to be more gimmicky and arguably dilute the core gameplay, or just might not be as well-made. It's not different than any other game on the chart with newer sequels or remakes. In this case it's a little academic because imo any one of half a dozen Contra or Castlevania games would fit about equally as well, it's not clear-cut. >>13305 >Golden Axe Warrior How's it in terms of lore/setting? I like barbarian stuff. On the chart I think it's a little weird Golden Axe is in "hack and slash" instead of in beat-em-up with Final Fight et al. I don't know "hack and slash" from "character action" either. And really it should be Revenge of Death Adder instead of Golden Axe 1, just about everyone (who's played it) agrees it's the best of the series.
>>13318 >lore/setting I mean it's Golden Axe dude
>>13318 >Golden Axe is in "hack and slash" instead of in beat-em-up with Final Fight et al >definitions I mentioned earlier that Golden Axe is a beat-em-up in >>11012. We reached a conclusion for the genre definitions in >>11190. >Revenge of Death Adder I haven't actually played the Golden Axe games. What makes it better?
>>13326 >Golden Axe is a beat-em-up Can confirm.
>>13318 But many other sequels destroy what was good in the original, for example Thief 4 kills the stealth. Duke Nukem Forever inclues a shitty weapon limit, etc. Contra 4 did nothing of the sort and just brought improvements. OG Contra had a lot of flaws such as the spread gun being the only relevant weapon. Laser Rifle totally sucked for example. Contra 4 improves the worse weapons, allows upgrading them and also holding two at once without "dilluting the core gameplay".
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>>13372 Contra fan here. While I do think 4 belongs up there with the best, let's not gonna pretend it's flawless. The dual screens and grappling hook was a dumb gimmick that at best didn't really add anything to the game and at worst occasionally got you killed unfairly by enemies hiding between the screens. The non-side view stages sucked the same way they do in every Contra that has them. As least in 4 you can get an upgraded homing shot and plow through them effortlessly. As for meaningful weapon variety, speaking as a 1-life hard mode champ, I do quite appreciate how one weapon isn't completely dominant throughout the game. On the most hardcore play I jump around between machinegun (good for demolishing early bosses), homing (stage survival), and spread shot (important for that asshole fish boss and later stages where your homing shot can't be relied upon to stop things about to kill you fast enough). I rank 4 up there with Super C, though I like Super C a bit more because it doesn't have as much memorization-heavy level design. If you want a Contra I have absolutely no complaints with, it's this one that nobody played. Also Hard Corps is overrated cinematic garbage.
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>>13288 >Put it this way: NES Contra and Super C had arcade counterparts that are much less popular. Yeah, because the arcade games have terrible aiming systems, huge characters, and more frustrating level design. The arcade Contra and Super Contra are basically completely different games. The NES games are simply better designed, and they both have more stages. And Contra III's slowdown is negligible, it never happens in a way that gets you killed. It's a solid game whose real problem is it's incredibly short.
Add Megaman Battle Network 3 Blue Version to the JRPG list. >perfectly blends card based combat with real time combat >pretty good story that expands on plot points that were underutilized in previous entries >extensive postgame and extra content as long as the main story
>>13326 >I haven't actually played the Golden Axe games. What makes it better? It's kinda hard to narrow down more than "everything"... it plays far more smoothly while still feeling similar to the original, has more content, and so on. Love GA1 but it is a bit janky and the console sequels follow suit. Tbh practically the only reason not to just have Capcom games in beat-em-ups is to "not just have Capcom games". >>13375 Good post, plus I think in Contra 4 the power gap between the pea shooter and max power is just too far too. Calling C:HC 'garbage' is a bit far for me but people overlook its weaknesses, it's all just memorizing what to do during the ebin set pieces. >>13377 Yeah I knew that, anyway even though the slowdown will not actually kill you it's still not great, not saying it's a lousy game though
>>13556 >Tbh practically the only reason not to just have Capcom games in beat-em-ups is to "not just have Capcom games". Capcom never made anything as good as this.
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>>13563 Looks good. You play it on MAME?
>>10880 Hey brother, I noticed this chart is sorely lacking in sports titles worth a damn... I was writing down an article for that self-publishing anon from vch, but never finished it completely. I'd like to share some good sports titles that more traditional gaming anons would also enjoy: >Super Mario Strikers / Mario Smash Football The prequel to Strikers Charged, in my humble opinion it's a much more compact arcade styled sports game, the sequel has a ton of meta and the fact you can change players is great, but the first one has that traditional Mario sports title feel that it's just impossible to pass on. >Mario Tennis 64 Honestly one of the most fun tennis simulations there is, tons of hidden content, the Gamecube sequel is also equally great but suffers from the special moves grinding sets to a halt and taunting is so damn obnoxious... >Inazuma Eleven series (first three titles, GO series is mostly just good at Chrono Stones) Fantastic footbal x RPG kind of game, it's hard to get a multiplayer match going because of the requirements but it's definitely worth the single player. Boasts tons of content and the ability to pretty much recruit EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER in the game (the student from your school, the enemy teams, CIAniggers, Jesus Christ, major historical figures, aliens etc.) >Pro Evolution Soccer 6 The perfect arcade simulation of soccer games, it's so good that people in the year of the lord 2020 are making mods for it. Master League is such a fun spin on fantasy football it has to be played to be believed. Music is fantastic too. >Super Dodge Ball - Kunio no Nekketsu Toukyuu Densetsu (arcade) Absolutely bombastic dodgeball game, tons of personality and Bosozoku charm. The arcade version is just the coolest. >Neo Geo Cup '98: The Road To Victory (or Super Sidekicks 2-3) One of the most interesting arcade sports titles, contains tons of fun and memorable cutscenes. It's notable for its gameplay system, which moves from traditional arcade football to a ton of manually activated quick time events that play a bit like microgames themselves. >Baseball Stars 2 One of the most gorgeous sports titles ever conceived, music is catchy as fuck and it's just non stop fun. Takes a long time to end a match but it's damn worth it. >Wii Sports The only game other than Warioware, No More Heroes and Red Steel that showed that waggle controls were actually worth sacrificing Nintendo to the casuals. Each sport is great fun to play with motion controls, bowling has quite literally been perfected in this. >Virtua Tennis (2009 but other versions are good too) A Tennis series with a penchant for fun minigames and a more "fundamentalist" approach to ball handling. >Klonoa Beach Volleyball Spectacular volleyball game that allows among its many features the ability to play 4 player matches using just two playstation controllers. TONS of content to unlock, never a dull moment. >NFL Blitz 2000 Just look up a single video online of possible plays and tell me this doesn't look like the funniest fucking thing.
OP, are you dead?
>>13777 I would have died much earlier tbh
>>13635 Ha! When I saw this post I wanted to ask what you thought of Virtua Tennis 4. Then read to the end. I really liked it, by the way.
>>13777 Still here, just lazy. I'll get something done tonight.
>>13856 I liked the arcades and the GBA versions the most but I just added it in a general sense to nudge OP in the right direction. It seems he's missing out on a lot of cool vidya. >>10880 An addendum: >Street Hoops Fantastic arcade basketball game
>>13777 >>13860 Almost done. I've moved on from RPG categorisation autism for a while as suggested but I did the simulation/flight/racing autism instead of the arcade genres that's what I planned to do next originally just so I could get back into the workflow. I'll make sure and read everything I missed in the meantime.
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WIP notes I've decided to lay off of RPG for now since anons suggested coming back to categorisation autism. Final changes there for a bit. Also I realise there's been a bunch of other suggestions elsewhere. I just did these ones as they were simple and it should get us back into the swing of things. Didn't touch racing yet really. <Added archive of last thread to top text. Also in general bookkeeping I jiggled around the categories a bit to flow better. <RPG >Cut Temple of Elemental Evil <Dungeon Crawler Creative use of the main menu and cropping resulted in a smaller Grimoire tile. <Roguelike >Added Sil it's from the front of the manual >Added Unreal World I already laid out earlier on why I think CDDA a shit but as I said there anons seem to like it so I'll add it if someone can find a useful cover with the name on it maybe a menu screenshot? <3D Platformers >Moved Jet Set Radio in from Rythm & Music <Horror >Added Parasite Eve <Rythm & Music >Added Gitaroo Man <Cut flight section Moved the games into either Simulation, Combat Simulation or Vehicular Combat. <Created Vehicular Combat section Was discussed way back, thinking about it the non-sim flight games also belong here. >Moved in Ace Combat 4 from Flight >Moved in Ace Combat Zero from Flight >Moved in Rogue Leader from Flight >Added Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense >Added Twisted Metal 2 Could have been Rogue Trip aka the real TM3 instead I guess, I don't mind either way >Added Brigador I think someone wanted one of the Ace Combat games changed. I'll check later. <Created Combat Sim split out from Sim Someone suggested this last thread, made sense. Sim is now mostly flight sims and racing sims but whatever. I don't think there are enough great non-combat flight or overall racing sims to justify them having their own sections but feel free to disagree. The other option is splitting flight sims, combat and non-combat into their own section. There's enough there to do it but the question is if grouping it by combat/non-combat is more sensible than flight/non-flight. I think combat/non-combat makes more sense personally. >Moved in Harpoon 3 from Sim >Moved in Rule the Waves from Sim >Moved in SH3 from Sim >Moved in Combat Mission from Sim >Moved in Steel Fury from Sim Could Swap with the other Graviteam Tactics tank sim or add it as well since it's less linear and more modern tank focussed >Moved in IL-2 from Flight could/should probably repalce this with 1946 >Moved in Strike Fighters 2 from Flight >Moved in European Air War from Flight >Moved in Mechwarrior 3 from Sim >Added Falcon 4.0 >Added Panzer Elite: Special Edition >Added Interstate '76 specifically The Arsenal version which is the xpack and gold patch bundled in Interstate '76 is the game that I first thought we needed vehicular combat for but it's actually more of a sim, reflecting its Mechwarrior heritage. The later console games are definetly less sim and more action though. If the most recent version of Graviteam Tactics is actually playable without a degree in slavic autism it could go in here too. <Simulation >Moved Microsoft Flight Sim X in from Flight >Moved in Richard Burns Rally from Racing21 >Added Xplane 11 >Added Football Manager 2017 I only dabble but I know 18 was broken as shit and I haven't cared enough to try 19, just pretend it's whatever year you like most if there's even anyone else who cares FSX could be replaced with p3d maybe. Perhaps Sid Meier's Pirates!, Sea Dogs or something goes here? This category could pretty easily go two lines I think. <Created Space section Really this is just a subsection of Sim and Combat Sim so it could go away and have the games distrubted over those two instead. >Moved in Freespace 2 from Sim >Moved in Tie Fighter from Sim >Moved in Klingon Academy from Sim >Moved in Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos from Sim >Added Kerbal one anon asked for it, fags can speak up if they want it or not. If it stays is it Space or does it belong in Sim? I guess it could sort of fit in Sandbox too. Notable games/series missing from this are Elite (probably Dangerous), Wing Commander, X2 or fixedX3, maybe Freelancer or Starlancer? Easy to find two more. Overall the sim categories seem a bit confused now. Sim Flight (combat + non-combat) and Sim Racing could probably fill standalone sections if that seems like it'd help. Then again that might just be me. Vehicular combat also ended up seeming to be a split between games based on flying and those on the ground. I don't know if that's necessarily a problem though and if we add too much granularity things also get weird.
>>13938 You forgot to replace Icewind Dale with Age of Decadence.
The covers should be sorted from oldest game to newest.
>>13945 I just decided to leave the RPG autism for later. >>13946 Generally I do that but within a series or within a rough similarity. First preference goes to keeping games of the same series next to one another.
>>13947 I think there's too many games anyway. I'm still sticking to the idea of one game per series unless it's a completely different genre (Mario Kart vs Mario Odyssey, etc).
>>13938 >didn't add Spacechem Why? It has it's own niche, has great design and is far more of a puzzle game than the add-the-adjective sandbox game that is Scribblenauts: Unlimited
>>13941 >>13938 C'mon buster, add some sportsball
>>13941 Also Victoria II with HPM should be in the GSG list to be honest
>>13983 I forgot. >>13994 I will when I get to that genre. >>13995 Probably.
Put Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap on the list or I end all conflicts between Pakistan and India.
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>some games take up 1 square, some take up 2 Why would you do this?
>>14535 Blame the nips for making weird shaped boxes.
>>14548 Actually, its the western localizations of nip games that have weirdly shaped boxes. Nip games fit perfectly on the chart.
>>13065 >automation of resizing Try XnConvert.
>>14614 Never knew that but fair enough.
OP here: I got very busy with work suddenly. I can try and keep going but more slowly, or I can post the xcf and the notes on sizes if someone else who can work on it faster wants to take a shot at it.
>>16314 Post the XCF. You had said you would do that earlier in case something like this happened.
>>16314 >>16339 XCF: https://files.catbox.moe/6fcy5x.xcf Notes: https://files.catbox.moe/v1u59m As I said I'll still work on it slowly if nobody else wants to take over but any other fag with basic gimp capabilities should be able to.

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