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/agdg/ - Amateur Game Dev General Anonymous 11/24/2019 (Sun) 17:11:38 No.4470
Remember current year games are shit and your dreamgame will never happen unless (You) make it!

Let's see if there is an audience for this here because I don't want to use cakefags board anymore.

>tfw every time I end up picking up a game engine and getting far into it I get some serious health issue that makes me forget or drop the engine because I'm in a hospital and I never pick it up again
It's happened three times now and I'm convinced its a sign.
Review your patterns. You're probably getting sick from doing or being somewhere wrong:
In an apartment I used to live in, I had nasal and throat problems. It was found during renovations the wall next to bathroom was full of black mold, my immune system was fighting every night just to survive.
Managed to migrate, healthy in tip top shape now.
Also, what was wrong with Tenicu's, Miya's, Anon.cafe's, or endchan's /agdg/?
Have you been doing demo day? I don't use cake/v/.
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What is the worst that can happen if you don't use any timestep in your game loop?
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When I grow up I'll be vidya creator
/agdg/ boards are shit, even the general thread in 8/v/ takes around a week+ to get bumped off the catalog. Much longer in the bunkers, the current one in cake/v/ is half a month old and not even close to bump limit. It's not fast enough to require a board. The only use is for dumping resources or keeping a personal devlog for your game.

>any timestep
You mean letting the OS run your game tick whenever it wants? Sounds like a recipe for game that feels like shit to play and completely inconsistent between machines.
>because I don't want to use cakefags board anymore.
Thanks anon. the agdg thread was the only reason i even went there but cakekike just became too obnoxious to me so i dropped even that.
This, but unironically

Cockfight Simulator
>and completely inconsistent between machines.
this. not modulating the system's timesteps to a consistent rate makes things feel inconsistent across machines.
I hope you're older than 13, or I will seriously ban you.
Risk of Rain devs actually transexual?
I didn't say a thing about 🎂🇮🇱's board. I asked what happened with the other generals in the other sites. IIRC, the first general was @ Miya's IB after 8ch shutdown. Dunno how many use Tenicu's.
Technically he's correct about one thing: of your line art is not part of the game, you shouldn't really be anime reacting ITT.
/agdg/ is a general, and it should be respected as such.
I'm not sure if I sure if you want strict /agdg/ moderation for this thread.
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>hotpocket should ban the obvious cake/v/ agent provocateur
>instead hotpocket threatens harsher moderation for everyone else
mods are faggots, no exceptions

Here's a riddle for you:
How do you know if someone is a hotpocket?
They will tell you
There's an /agdg/ thread on smug/vg/ too, might as well go there since cartoons are apparently really that triggering to cakevol instead of wasting your time arguing with shit stirrers.
Oh if this thread is going to be frequent enough, I'm going to lurk in this place instead at cake jew. I don't have any new progress to show currently.
>call out the cuckime poster
>he completely loses his shit and spams several other threads
nuff said
if all you're going to do is avatarfag without actually providing any on-topic content, don't let the door hit you on the way out
I didn't know before that Microtank or Moonman mod is anime themed now.
ignore him, this nigger is spamming another thread right now, too, something really upset him. I wonder what that could be
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Yes yes.
Dear hotpockets, can you just banforward the off-topic autists in this thread to a containment thread already?
>ban everyone who doesn't like cuckime!
wwwwaaaaaahhhhh cry cuckime babby cry
Is game programming as soul crushing as regular programming?
Only if you're programming something you don't like. When it's a passionate project like your game, it doesn't crush your soul.
Work programming non solutions are.
>another thread from someone attempting to leave vch
>low effort bait returns after weeks of nothing
Must be a (((coincidence))), reminder not to take the bait.
> Miya's
> Tenicu's
For those of us who don't follow the latest in shitposting e-drama care to spell out who's who? I assume Tenicu is animu bunker?
You act as if you're discouraging him from abandoning cakekike's little hellhole. I wonder why that could be friend?
Miya is chen2, Tenicu is smugloli.
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I know how to model but i don't know how to program. I was having fun progressing along&reading but UV and textures just always felt like cancer to do, and i was too busy at the time to hone it further, in a way it lost purpose for me.

My advice to anyone else is just to start off with programming first, even rudimentary, a balanced approach is a good foundation, but at the same time focus on where your natural talent is, most of the time it will be obvious.
I see thanks. Yeah, I kinda figured I was wrong about Tenicu after I posted.
>uv mapping
it's just another way to describe two variables just like x & y are. those letters just happened to be picked by the guys describing the direction of the connecting edge between two vertexes. It allows you to describe the direction of the connection, which face normals need to render correctly.

Does that make sense?
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Yes it does my friend, i just never cared for it. That and textures that are not obvious.

However seeing how much easier game creation has become, as well as the market/tools being so much better I'm tempted to go back and work hard and study at it again. However actual application for me has always been the driving factor. So for me now its either going back to 3d or learning a relevant language.

I think i have some good game ideas laid out that people would really enjoy in the stale consumerist gaymer cesspool it has become but most likely they'd just die with me since i am not able to realize them. Devs like kingdom come does give one hope though.
He's saying that cakefags come out of the woodwork to shit the board up and make it seem unappealing every time someone leaves the kike's bunker and comes here, and he's not wrong.
Either your reading comprehension is shit or you're deliberately being obtuse.
Then I'd say dig into a language for development. It won't hurt. Any solid ideas what language you want to pick up yet?
>Devs like kingdom come does give one hope though.
Glad to hear it. I'm not familiar with him tbh.
>Either your reading comprehension is shit or you're deliberately being obtuse.
Could be. I don't follow your little dramas, but it's not hard to pick up on the cakejew's (((antics))) friend.
Just admit you misinterpreted the post man, it's not a big deal, don't be a fucking woman about it.
lel, you sound like a woman. i believe you're the one bitching and moaning friend.
Please use the meta thread so anons discussing game development don't have to shift through meta discussion.
Anyone need a programmer?
Literally nobody here has a game. A agdg isn't needed.
Again, woman logic. I would direct the exact same comment towards yourself. :^)
A...Are you me? I'm pretty much in the same boat you are in m8, to compensate for my skills gap I tend to make tonk mods for other games because that's what I'm best at doing it. So far I have made Panzerstahl (Springas RTS), Microtank (GZDoom), EstoniaReich (OpenRA), ARWM (Factorio)
>Start with programming first
Yeah, I kinda wish I had listened to this advice instead of fucking around with Wings 3D a decade ago, welp. But I wasn't in any /agdg/ community either previously. For now I will be finishing Microtank at least there is one project I am proud of.
>>4800 (checked)
I know how UV maps work, it's just awfully discouraging for me to work with it when I know when my "texturing" work is gonna look like crap anyway so I tried to find alternatives to this method. So far I have found Ptex (3D coat only, Blender is DOA), per-polygon texture (Total Annihilation .3do model format).
Have you seen this one anon who made a tonk game from scratch? Looked pretty good too
You mean the chibi abomination? If you're the dev you should be ashamed of yourself.
What? No. It was a normal tonk game.
Just looked up unity and tanks, no that is not the game i was thinking of. Anon made a game like those old tank games. Can't remember the name of it tho. It was pretty much done so people got angry at him for having a game and told him to fuck off.
I can recall there was another anon that made some tank models but he wants to make a dwarf-ish RTS game in OpenRA.
>Just looked up unity and tanks, no that is not the game i was thinking of. Anon made a game like those old tank games.
Hmm, well I did tried fiddling around with Godot to make a 2D tonk game first but looking at the documentation it causes me more confusing then it answers question so I abandoned this idea, It is very very far from being finished in such current "state". I guess I should try making some basic bitch games first such as pong or uhh tetris and such sort of thing, just to get familiar with the engine first before making the main-ish 2D tank project and then slowly moving on to 3D. But for me as it is I already settled to polish micro tank more first so it makes for me little sense to jump ship again. To make the move to godot faster I will cut out quite a few ideas what I had in mind in microtank. For example I had written down ideas for 16 weapon types but I will probably only implement those what I kind of have in WiP already. I try to organize the list of issues in my Gitgud page to prioritize more important features first. At least with the hiatus of any tonk project I was also trying to fiddle around more with Python so that should help me understand more how ACS works in GZDoom.
I can recall there was another anon that made some tank models but he wants to make a dwarf-ish RTS game in OpenRA.

that guy's a cool guy tbh.
Shimapanzer Strike?
no, it was realistically looking
What's a good engine for C++ that is usable with only code. Something like irrlicht but not irrlicht.
If you just want 2D you can't beat SFML anon.
sorry forgot to mention it should be for 3d
is there something like sfml but for 3d? that'd be rad
Raylib may be what you're after: https://www.raylib.com/
looks good except it's written in c but meh
did you work with this before?
I've used for a few toy things and it was fine from what I remember.
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>see premake
>this looks nice, finally no more manual makefile creation
>it doesnt export to cmake
>it doesnt support ninja
Finding a decent build system is hard
How many of you have invested real effort into learning level design and gameplay loops based around it? I think a lot of anons in game dev would benefit from trying to make a handful of Sonic levels. Figure out how to make them satisfying and flow well. Then you can apply that to other games you make.
I don't think anyone has gone so far in development that they're thinking about level design.
I replayed a bunch of games and due to my background as a minor draftsman okay, fine, a shitty CAD drafter i found that i can bypass that by only making interesting floor plans and geometry, at least for a Hitman rip-off.
Yet i have seen it doesn't work that well at times, and i'm trying to map loops i did when i was a kid, trying to understand what made them special. Goldeneye, for example, had tons of it in various levels were you could psychologically torture the guards by shooting their hats or a door behind them, in my opinion regarding stealth games these loops depend very heavily on the AI and liberty to move inside the level. Interconnectivity as some would say.

Regarding other kind of games like scrollers, that's another story. My plan would be to draw levels you like and have a good time analyzing what you normally do and what makes it good, this includes playing the level in your mind while holding the piece of paper.
Haven't even made the menu so i might be just talking prematurely.
WhyTF are there ids now??
checked and *sighed* anon. i feel your pain tbh.
To make samefagging spammers more obvious, but with the drawback being that any non-shitstirrer who uses tor or a VPN will now be accused of samefagging and told to fuck off no matter the content of their posts.
It's a vicious cycle.
Have you considered meson? I don't have enough experience with this language to know if it's MIT nigger shit, but it works okay for my simple needs.
Raylib is a great tool for prototyping, I have never gotten off the ground so fast with 3D graphics.
Only problem I had with it was no vulkan support, so the moment you need to step outside the walled garden you get to enjoy opengl in all its splendor. Eventually I just gave up an went back to eternal enginedev.
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>eternal enginedev
anon, no!
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First off I'm sorry for asking stupid questions but I am going into this blind. So I have some basic questions I'm sure would probably be answered if I took a second to read something.
1: I have no talent but an Idea. I'm sure that puts me squarely in the IdeaGuy™ department but how do I get out of that? I could maybe get a team but if I had the funds to just hire people I would probably be further than just brainstorming. How do I go about gaining competence?
2: I'm trying to puzzle out a design document but I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be doing here? Just write down the ideas of what I want the game to be so I have a guide? Go into detail? Keep it vague? I'm lost, but that's obvious.
3: the Op has resources but is there any "So you want to make a game" primer I could read to get my head in the right space?
4: Is it a bad idea to discuss ideas here? What are the chances of thieving faggotry happening? I want to talk about ideas but at the same time I feel like it'd be the worst feeling to be working on something and see your project stolen by some shitter.

I have the idea, like I said earlier, and a basic idea of the "gameplay loop" but it's all in really ambiguous terms. I also have ideas for the look and feel I want to go for as well.
Before you go anywhere at all I want you to forget the idea of a "team" or coworkers entirely. You shouldn't even think of asking others to help before you're familiar with the process of making at least a small finished game (making, not looking or reading or hearing about it), or otherwise have lots of development experience or endless pockets.

>What are the chances of thieving faggotry happening
Literally zero. There isn't a single person on this earth who doesn't have ideas of their own. Plus other people aren't going to be able to interpret your idea the same way that you are imagining it anyway, at worst they'll get inspired by some specific part of it and do something with some vaguely similar detail.

>design document
Most likely you'll realize too late that there was no way you, with no experience making a game, could have actually known all the details that you should or shouldn't have in the game. And more importantly, if you need a "design document", then you're starting too big. From personal experience if you want to start with a big project right away (which I'm not going to tell you is wrong), it's going to take you so long to learn to do it that in the process you'll change your mind about most/all of the ideas you had at the start.

On the flip side though, if you enjoy doing it and don't feel guilty about doing that instead of working on the game, then there's no harm doing it. Having a plan you feel excited about might also give you motivation to work on it, and even give you a better idea of what the game actually should be while you work on it (or give you an idea for a better game).

TL;DR the design document itself will probably be ultimately useless, but it's not necessarily useless to make one.

>puts me squarely in the IdeaGuy™ department but how do I get out of that?
>"So you want to make a game" primer I could read to get my head in the right space?
There's so many different ways of making games that it's hard to get someone started without asking some questions first. I also recommend reading this section from the wiki ("What should I use?" and "...so what DO I use?"); http://8agdg.wikidot.com/programming#toc0
It puts pretty nicely the different ways of making a game, and gives a rough idea of what you might want to go with. If you're not particularly enthusiastic about programming, then it's recommended to use an engine like Unity. Unity gets a bad rap but it's popular because of how easy it is to get into, though you'll still need to learn some C# programming. It's still not "easy" to make games with an engine, but the amount of depth you'll have to go with programming is low compared to other options.
>What are the chances of thieving faggotry happening?
100% If you're worried about keeping your ideas private then do just that anon. IBs aren't about muh sekrit club any more than say lebbit or twatter.
>if I took a second to read something
Including replies? What is this, a blog post?
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don't do what I almost did three times and force your way into taking over someone else project and or make them do your idea.

Well Diablo for example started with a design document from a couple of devs who sold their idea to blizzard back in the day, however now that the business has become less of a kind hobbyist sector thing and more of a ruthless profit industry most likely what will happen is your idea will just get stolen if you do not have means to at least barebones realize it yourself untill you can get other people on board with your barebones with you and people you trust being IP holder.

Unity as you said is also a really good engine, the only reason why it gets called bad is because retards just see people that keep making bad games on it and ignore the few that were actually good and not mediocre turds.
Story time, anon. Tell us what happened.
I am thinking of making a scriptable Touhou engine as a programming exercise. I just haven't decided on the logo yet so I can't start.
Also kinda busy with work stuffs
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>get hospitalized for melancholic depression >still don't feel any better and the (((caretakers))) treat me like a stupid little toddler for fuck sake, I just want to work on my projects already.
>>7349 >unity is a really good engine lololololoolol
>>8534 >get hospitalized for depression What shithole do you live in anon? And if you actually want to cure depression, the last thing you want to do is take "anti-depressants" or do anything your "doctors" tells you to do. The best medicine is food not pills, and just not eating junk food or carbs with only water as a drink will make you feel way better in no time. If you still feel like shit, just take the cold shower meme and do some daily running or some daily calisthenics, doesn't have to be crazy just some light exercise for 30 minutes a day.
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>>8534 Heh common mistake. Simply never seek any medical counsel and you will never be diagnosed with anything!
>>8541 > and just not eating junk food or carbs with only water as a drink will make you feel way better in no time. Stop eating bread, that'll fix a lot of shit first-off. Processed shit and bread are some of the first things you should cut from your diet if you actually want to cure "depression".
>>8608 To add to this: stop spending so much time on screens (TV/phone/Computer). They're raping your eyes and cause all sorts of mental problems. People are not supposed to live like we do in modern times. Going outside and disconnecting does wonders for depression. You don't have to deal with normalfags if you go places where you can avoid them like far off hiking routes. Sitting and thinking without distraction does a mind good. Just realize that at first you'll feel worse because you are no longer distracting yourself with things like video games. You have to actually work on the things that bother you once you figure out what they are.
>>8608 american bread maybe, eurobread is really good but american food in general is shit
>cakefag Huh?
>>4470 Did Anon's Bizarre Adventure ever get finished?
Most of these games where made in unity: http://edelweiss.skr.jp/info/c97pv/index.html Only interested in プラネットルーラー & Magic Potion Millionaire: https://www.denneko.com/uniuni https://artifacts.xii.jp/products/mpmillionaire.html 4日目(火曜日) 南ム-31a & 南メ-08a「マジックポーション・ミリオネア」
>>8810 I have to say amerifood is really good, but only the upper-echelons of it. For example their cheese is great, but only the ones that cost 3 to 5 times more than the normal ones. Same with good milk and vegetables, they are easy enough to find but cost just as much as meat. Good food that won't turn you gay or give you cancer is widely available but will fuck your wallet up, or at least make you drive 30 minutes more.
>>8898 >I have to say amerifood is really good, but only the upper-echelons of it. For example their cheese is great, but only the ones that cost 3 to 5 times more than the normal ones. Same with good milk and vegetables, they are easy enough to find but cost just as much as meat. >Good food that won't turn you gay or give you cancer is widely available but will fuck your wallet up, or at least make you drive 30 minutes more. Mostly due to weird taxes and subsidies that make healthy food and raw ingredients way more expensive than processed shit. It's a shame because like you say the small scale production burger food is really good like eurofag shit without the pretentious history and backwards farming tech holding it back.
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>>8541 >What shithole do you live in anon? On the germany. So does that mean I have to cut down with coffee drinking as well? I like drinking coffee, welp looks like I have to stock up on a lot of uncarbonized water then to piss away all the shit medicine. >>8561 I guess using strong alcoholic beverage is a very bad idea to get hospitalized for, since now muh microtank project is semi-jeopardized because of this shit, don't have internet connection either so I wouldn't be able to manage all the files properly let alone uploading .wings/.blend source files I used to make the models. It fucking sucks because I was about to get more familiar with ACS side of things so that I can do more advanced shit and eventually even persistent local account system. >and you will never be diagnosed with anything! how the fug do I secure my sonbasket bucks then so that I can maintain my project in peace?
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Somebody made a Spellcross monster pack mod for ZDoom, sadly the author didn't bothered with random spawners actor to replace vanilla doom monster rooster. I made a quick and dirty mod that does just that, it needs a lot of tweaking before I bother releasing it. I really enjoyed Spellcross as it's almost nearly perfect, too bad there isn't a worthy sequel to this game either for the better or worse. Used wads: MT_ProvingGround.wad (private) Rpl_Ns.wad (replace Wolfenstein SS enemy, private) dbzone_v7rmk_k.wad dbzone_rmk_adv_v3.pk3 Spellcross Arena V1.04.wad https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=49873&hilit=spellcross&sid=2ea2d7a8d751407b5708cd997eaf601a Spellcross_Monster_Replacer_v1.pk3 (private) Microtank development directory
>>9016 >>8541 >>8534 Enjoy being on a watch/warninglist for the rest of your life and never getting funs. Also guaranteed to show up in any accusation of domestic abuse, child custody or related court case where you'll be painted as entirely insane.
>>9016 >On the germany. lol, wo?
>>9043 >Enjoy being on a watch/warninglist for the rest of your life fugg >Also guaranteed to show up in any accusation of domestic abuse, child custody or related court case where you'll be painted as entirely insane. H-having a w-waifu will protect me from this court case, r-right? On a other note, reworking my particle system should be a worthy endeavor so that I can do better finer control how each effect looks like, currently only the HE Shell/Medium Explosion particle effects uses this change, I am really a sucker for good looking particle effects so it will happen soon-ish, but first I still need to do the weapon/tank ACS/Decorate related stuff working and then some additional weapons that uses the refactored decorate code.
>>9061 >H-having a w-waifu will protect me from this court case, r-right? Until feminists succeed in the recreation of a single male tax sure.
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What is the best way to do directional collision detection for an arkanoid style game? Considering it is possible for the ball to hit a brick from 4 different sides and depending on the side the angle of reflection is different.
>>9061 >>9061 I think I remember you when I was in Latvia.
>>9127 I'm not going to claim it's the best approach, but it werks: https://pastebin.com/E6QJwA37 (line 29 onward is the relevant part) Basically determine which cardinal direction the ball is approaching before handling collision logic. The direction can easily be determined by finding the largest distance from the centers of the block and ball. (line 34) Then you just have to reset the ball's position and reflect the velocity along the directional axis that you found. Assuming the ball is smaller than a block, you should only need to check four blocks per frame. There are of course some edge cases. Double collisions aren't a huge deal, as the ball will collide two blocks on the same face no matter what, however, make sure to only handle one of the collisions or else you'll double invert the ball's velocity, and it'll fly right through. Aside from that, if the ball travels too quickly (say one block height per frame,) it will clip through the blocks and not collide properly. If that is a problem just apply the algorithm to all the blocks in the ball's trajectory.
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I have come to grips with the fact that I will never be able to make the game I want while being a wage slave. I put my game on the shelf and I now spend every moment thinking of ways to break out of my wage slave cage.
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>>11306 >as the ball will collide two blocks on the same face no matter what That's incorrect, pic related. >Aside from that, if the ball travels too quickly (say one block height per frame,) it will clip through the blocks and not collide properly. If that is a problem just apply the algorithm to all the blocks in the ball's trajectory. You should do swept checks to avoid tunnelling. Line-circle collision detection isn't that hard and learning how to do it properly is a very helpful skill for a variety of game types.
>>11449 rent a room out.
>>7193 >4: Is it a bad idea to discuss ideas here? What are the chances of thieving faggotry happening? I want to talk about ideas but at the same time I feel like it'd be the worst feeling to be working on something and see your project stolen by some shitter. To be bluntly honest, yes, you really shouldn't share your best ideas anywhere. A well executed idea can potentially reward you with millions, billions, or even trillions of dollars depending on how amazing it is. The problem is that you don't have the means to execute these great ideas, but other people lurking here might. How remember how facebook started? I know the post is old, but I'm saying this for anyone else who might be reading. It's just stupid to go around running your mouth and hoping that everyone else is just as incapable or unimaginative as you are, placing your bets on the fact that they "won't" and not that they "can't" steal your ideas. I personally know some very ambitious people who only gain pleasure from working hard, earning money, and winning at life at all costs, they are extremely boring, robotic, and unimaginative, but what they lack in original ideas, they make up for it with intensive research and education, so they won't have any problems "stealing" the great ideas that people leave so publicly on the internet.
>>11565 People stealing ideas from /agdg/ and making millions is something that literally never fucking happens, stop being so fucking conceited.
>>11659 Remember? https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://8ch.net/gamerfruit/* -Yandere simulator -Not 3D Dwarf Fortress Frontend -Anton and Coopler -Giga Maidens -Vivian man Good times.
>>11660 >Yandere simulator was stolen What? >Anton and Coopler What exactly was stolen from that? The idea of putting pants on a snake? Never heard of any of the other shit.
the idea isn't enough. you have to actually put effort into it inorder for it to be stolen. that said I'm surprised >>11660 didn't list off the poor slav that put so much work into his game that was going to save him from his shit life, only for nier automata to come out and crush his hopes.
>>11663 I'm agreeing with >>11659, retard. >Never heard of any of the other shit Sad. This means you're not a 8ch regular. >>11664 You have to admit that was funny. Like if 横尾 太郎 wasn't reinspired from his preceding games to make yetanother slicendice. Devil May cry set the formula decades ago, prior to his demo.
>>11666 yeah satan would find that funny.
>>11666 8ch is dead, you should have used past tense.
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>>11671 Seeing that image makes me depressed. I know I probably shouldn't be feeling nostalgic for 8chan but an image like that really makes me feel sad. I know there were autistic slap fights between all the boards but I kind of felt like the anons on 8chan were friends, to some extentexpect /leftpol/ and /leftypol/.
>>11664 lolwat? What's this about? Anymore details?
>>11762 tldr >anon was working on a pretty cool looking game with a hot rawbutt protagonist >yoko taro visits 8chan >nier automata later has a hot rawbutt protagonist >anon loses his shit, claims his idea was stolen and quits forever when people laugh at him He was also being harassed by the slav mafia because of his father's debts or something.
>>11671 you miss the sun. we entered three years of a long winter.
>>11671 Could you post the original of that? I'd like to save something happy for the memories of when shit was good.
>>11882 here >>11853 the sun wasn't a board unless I'm an idiot.
>>11847 What a blast from the past.
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>>9061 The planned A_Warp rewrite is not going well as I hoped it would be, I think I have to shelve this idea for a while and work on other parts instead. At least I managed to pull off having different coax guns so I could try making new design soon, it kinda sucks with the A_Warp because I want to have different tank classes + 1-2 MBT line (One Japanese and one German MBT) soon too. >>11664 I don't even bother anymore when my ideas get "stolen" what matters to me more is that I enjoy developing mods and sharing it with other anons.
Does anyone here work with .xnb files? I need some sounds extracted.
Does anyone know how to use search engines? I need someone to talk to.
>>11847 I would've gone full kamikaze, what happened to slav honor killing?
>>11847 Mother's debts*
How do you program a camera system for your 2d game? I want to be able to follow my character as he walks around. It's a side scroller. Right now I only know how to use the drawing context coordinates, not deal with world coordinates.
>>13783 3 layers. Background, play area, and camera. Camera follows play area object A, which should be your player character.
I tried learning programming via YouTube videos, Solo learn and Unity tutorials but even when I think I have a basic understating of what I am writing it never really works. Over the years I tired three times and it gets to a point where I stop watching/writing code daily and it all goes down the memory hole. What have you guys found works best?
>>13868 start when you're 10 you will be a programming ace by 20
>>13868 Learn something simpler first, like C or javascript. You're probably trying to learn too big of a context (C# OOP pajeet factory + Unity bloat) and it becomes too hard to get a foothold on anything.
>>13868 Learn by doing. Make a stupid easy game, like snake or shoot'em'up. Learn about collision detection, rewards and punishments, animation, and menuing. Once you get the basics, it gets easier.
>>13868 You want to learn programming first and gamedev second so go look up basic programming courses free ones and avoid youtube not Unity shit. Start with C not ++ if you want a good basis for serious knowledge but a harder start to getting anywhere or an easier language if you just want to try and learn the general idea of programming then jump back to the languages that are closer to the bare metal. If you intend to stick to using Unity or similar you could probably skip out on this level of knowledge if you really want. The most retard proof language to learn is Python but it'll be of very limited use in vidya and you'll have a bit of a shock if you later on jump back to C/++ since they do a lot less stuff for you implicitly. Still if you're really struggling to get anywhere it's by far the easiest way to start learning if you use a non-pajeet tutorial. It'll arguably teach you less bad habits than using javascript though a few things it does are odd compared to most other languages I think of it as a teaching/rapid prototyping language rather than an end-product one though it does get used for some academic shit with C libraries doing the heavy lifting. Any other language described as a scripting language will also be easy to learn and some, like Lua, will potentially be of more use to you later. Whatever you do if you're following along a series of tutorials/classes take fairly regular breaks and sleep on what you've learned, even go and revisit things the next day and see what happens. Make sure and actually do exercises or even just type the code you see in the lessons and fuck around with it yourself: you'll learn much better that way. Just staring at a screen won't get you anywhere particularly if you keep doing it when you can 'feel' it isn't sinking in. Once you've got basic programming down which if you're neet and motivated shouldn't be more than a month or two then go consider doing Unity-specific shit.
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>>13894 >c first meme advice, ignore
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>>13900 <Meme response Ignored.
>>13900 It isn't bad advice, and neither was his suggestion of Python because it's still useful for Godot and Pygame. Not even a bigger meme like SICP is bad advice if the anon it's directed at can read a book. Speaking of books, if any of the enginefags here are bored you might be interested in http://www.dataorienteddesign.com/dodbook/ . It goes beyond the usual muh CPU cache and muh Structure of Arrays drivel you get from DODfags and focuses on engine design techniques and optimizations inspired by relational databases.
>>13905 >Godot and Pygame How are they nowadays? Last time I looked they were viable for small projects but probably not for anything commercial.
>>13905 SICP is definitely bad advice in this context. It's only a good recommendation for someone who's already experienced with programming and wants to learn anything else that might expand their skills or give a new perspective on things. C is also mostly only a good recommendation for the context of learning in the beginning. It's good to learn with because it's very straightforwardly simple and doesn't have a lot of abstraction hiding what's actually going on, but it becomes harder and harder to use it for actual things the further you go along. It's also hard to just get a simple game going that you can experiment with, unlike scripting languages like Lua/Python/Javascript. It's good for enginedevs and people who are enthusiastic about the programming side itself though. Scripting languages are good for learning how to build things and growing you gamedev experience since it's much easier to express ideas and experiment, but they may give you bad habits and weird ideas about how to do things since they don't give you any knowledge about what you're actually doing beneath the surface. You'll most likely have to drop it eventually unless you keep to simpler games.
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>>13900 Thanks for the new smug, meme faggot.
>>13877 >>13878 >>13894 Thanks for the advice, I think I am going to try my hand at JavaScript instead of C# that I was trying to learn.
>>13906 >Godot It isn't quite ready for commercial 3D games yet, but 2D games? Absolutely. So far one Steam bestseller uses it (Terry Cavanagh's latest game, Dicey Dungeons) and there will definitely be more in the future. >Pygame Haven't touched it in ages, probably still the same. I don't know if anyone actually uses it outside game jam fags but it definitely has its fans and a software renderer if you care about that.
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What are some of the best examples of well-written 2D video games? The platform doesn't matter. I just want to see how they did various subsystems (camera, tile loading, time sync counter, collision detection, bounding box physics, etc.)
>>13868 For learning to code, here's what I suggest: 1. Think deeply about concepts. Experiment with a REPL, draw a picture, take notes, create metaphors, evaluate trade-offs, JUST THINK AND BE CONSCIOUS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc 2. Write automated tests during your development. This makes you THINK about what your doing at every stage of programming and helps you learn a lightning speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSes_PexXcA 3. Find quality materials. I try to keep my own library at my desk with for things like algorithms and the primary language I'm writing in at a minimum, but I also go out and try to find Gurus who know the ins-and-outs of what I'm working in. The creator of the language/framework/library is a must, people who are on the language committee are also good, domain experts are invaluable. Find experts who can enrich your understanding, avoid shitty one-off medium blogs. Always have multiple resources(blogs, videos, tools, books, podcasts), always be actively looking for more resources. If you can't find anything good, your not looking hard enough or you've discovered something marketable. You generally don't have to pay for things, but don't rule it out entirely. 4. Start with small projects . The best first project is solving a problem you currently have, like recently I wrote an automated web scrapper for artist that only post on twitter. You can also do things like creating you own CSS sheets so websites look the way you want or write bash scripts to clean up your files. 4a. If you can't think of anything, solving problems on a site like: https://projecteuler.net/ or http://www.4clojure.com/ is a good way to get comfortable with a language(and writing tests first) 5. Have a routine. Most programmers work in 3 hour units and with a high level of concentration. Being autistically dedicated helps, I've found meditating before work makes it easier to focus, but as long as your methodical and deliberate I'm sure you'll be great. 6. I'll say it again: THINK AND RESEARCH. 85% of programmers are not conscious of what they do and limit themselves to one language doing one thing. Spending an hour every day or so to look into something is a good way to find enrich yourself and find interesting stuff. 7. If your scared of something, charge into it like a man. Wanna learn deep-learning? https://dragan.rocks/articles/19/Deep-Learning-in-Clojure-From-Scratch-to-GPU-0-Why-Bother thinking about doing some massively distributed calculations? https://www.michael-noll.com/tutorials/writing-an-hadoop-mapreduce-program-in-python/ Want to write your own game doom-like game engine? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQYsFshbkYw 8. If you don't know what problem a language/tool/framework/engine was designed to solve, your trying to cut with the flat edge of a kitchen knife. i.e. JS is a scripting language for web clients that can make requests to servers for reads/writes, SQL is an implementation of relational algebra for storing related information, containers were developed so we could run processes in isolation agnostic to the deployment environment, ect.. tl;dr: Actually think about what your doing, Write tests, find quality materials, start small, have a routine, think you monkey, charge into shit, know what problem your trying to solve.
>>13939 Symphony of the night used the very mundane system of having a grid of tiles, where each tile had a left-height and right-height. It seemed to work quite well.
>>13974 >Write automated tests during your development. This makes you THINK about what your doing at every stage of programming and helps you learn a lightning speed There's also the general topic of feedback loops which this touches on. Whatever method you use either in learning or development, you need to figure out what that feedback loop looks like because being able to see your code making stuff move on a screen (or even just seeing one more test pass) helps a lot with motivation.
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>>13913 >javascript ngmi
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>>13974 >scrapper Thanks for letting everyone know you're a pajeet that can't into english
>>14034 Where's your game? Post a screenshot that identifies this place or your post in it.
>>14038 So no game then, your opinion about gamedev ignored.
>>14039 I'm not him, you stupid faggot, and I doubt he's faggy enough to screencap his own progress posts in case someone cries about him mocking JavaScript in a later thread.
>>14025 I should clarify I'm looking for open source game codebases (well written ones)
>>14051 just open your ass up and stick a finger in bro, can write all you want and as much as you want bro.
>>13914 Neat. I'll have to look into them again.
I'm trying to avoid Unity and Unreal as far as fully-fledged 3D engines go, are there any glaring problems with developing a 3D game in Godot that I should know before going all-in in starting 3D gamedev with it?
>>14065 None that I know off: https://invidio.us/search?q=3D+games+Godot I'm too waiting on a formal answer from >>13914 There seems to be Unity employees against building 3D games in libre 3D engines: https://archive.ph/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines#Engines I suggest you ignore their attempts to dissuade you against working with libre code.
>>14081 >I suggest you ignore their attempts to dissuade you against working with libre code I think I will
>>14065 >are there any glaring problems with developing a 3D game in Godot that I should know before going all-in in starting 3D gamedev with it? Not really if comparing it to Unity or Unreal. Versus the do everything yourself meme there'll be on-paper performance differences but they rarely apply in the real world and most selfmade engines end up with pajeet-tier mistakes that make them less efficient anyway.
>>14065 >>14091 Also to add: when considering your overall product (the game) you need to take into account development time, ease of hunting bugs, developer motivation etc. Godot would tend to win here, though granted you'll have a slightly harder time just googling for how to do something which you shouldn't do anyway: copying someone else's code in blindly from the first search result ends badly.
>>14065 >>14081 Oh boy. >no occlusion culling >LOD is broken >GLES3 renderer isn't getting much love because a Vulkan renderer is replacing it next release Otherwise it has a lot of modern features and you can make good stuff with it provided you know its limitations. It's much better than it was at 3.0's launch, back when another /agdg/ anon and I tried making a 3D Die Totenmaske in it and got crushed by glTF 2 importer issues and severe jank.
>>14100 >no occlusion culling Add it. >LOD is broken Fix it. >GLES3 renderer isn't getting much love because a Vulkan renderer is replacing it next release Branch it >glTF 2 importer issues and severe jank Maintain it.
>>14103 >all criticism dismissed because "its open source do it yourself" Typical FOSS brain damage.
>>14104 So if it was closed sourced, and in this case licensed to Unity Technologies and/or Tencent+Tim Sweeney it would have: -occlusion culling -working LOD -GLES3 & Vulkan -and a glTF 2 importer ? One legally allows me to upstream and hire people to implement them, the other I would have to forever wait.
>>14105 Nah you're just a bit tone deaf to the users of an open source framework. If a small lib has issues then sure. But if you're pulling in a massive dependency and that complexity isn't executed well, you've just inherited a giant mess for not only development but maintenance. You're not even wrong, it's just that it doesn't take more than a few busted features before it's a more economic use of your time to develop your own game engine from scratch that only does what you need it to.
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>>14106 Then why are you assuming >>14065 even needs LOD (3.0 has), occlusion culling (3.1 has), GLES3 & Vulkan, and a glTF 2 importer? >before it's a more economic use of your time to develop your own game engine from scratch that only does what you need it to. To repeat the same mistake everyone does for the nth time? The point of an engine is absolve the debts of bugs, code refractoring, compatibility, negligence, etc. and lower the barrier to introduce new features, mirror everything, and just game design right away. Starting from scratch is repeating history for no reason: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://blog.ndepend.com/rewrite-or-refactor/ https://garrettdimon.com/2012/rebuilding-vs-refactoring/
>>14111 >Avatarfagging >Just inherit someone else's mess and fix it lmao
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>where-is-your-progress sperg >fix-everything-yourself sperg i see the usual retards have arrived. glad to see you are now on every single /agdg/ thread on every board
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>>13974 >Most programmers work in 3 hour units Hahaha, what?
>>14129 Once you get past a few hours your concentration goes to shit because of distraction, hunger, mental fatique. You might get one or two streaks of buckle-down productivity per day. Past that, most will fade and get diminishing returns. That's usually a good time to switch to minor busywork tasks, or to just call it a day.
>>14122 >where-is-your-progress sperg If you're going to act all smug while telling other people that they're doing it wrong, you better be able to prove that you know how to do it right.
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>>14111 Frameworks are great for many or maybe even most use cases. But you can't gloss over the downsides either. A huge one is dealing with the churn of a framework. Updating to new releases for shit you don't even use that breaks compatibility can be like trudging through quicksand. I think a good balance is to try find your main prebuilt options and do a deep dive on their code bases. After you're narrowed it down to a few options, do a quick prototype of your game in each while you also try to build it in a primitive engine of your own. You'll quickly find the biggest pain points. There's also a huge benefit to building your own. You learn a shitload, are left with an artifact you can re-use and modify at your own pace, and exactly to your own liking. And you can avoid a lot of the biggest mistakes by reading source code of other game engines, copy-pasting some of the more esoteric math functions/optimizations as you go, or reading a book like Game Engine Architecture. "Build or buy" is a classic software engineering dilemma, and the best answer is usually a case by case basis. If you've been burned by a framework before, you'll know what I mean.
>>14134 You don't need to be able to do it right to know when someone else is doing it wrong. I can't paint but I can 100% tell you a feminist's bloody-tampon-on-a-canvas isn't correct, for example. Unless you were saying that only the smugness requires you to be capable of doing it properly.
>>14136 >You don't need to be able to do it right to know when someone else is doing it wrong. You kind of do, though. A lot of wisdom is counter-intuitive until you've run the gauntlet. So you have a lot of people with strong opinions that greatly outsize their experience. And they shoot down valid techniques, or promote ones with serious limitations that they don't even realize exist.
>>14136 That doesn't apply to everything the same way, for example in programming different methods have all kind of different advantages and disadvantages. Javascript in particular has many advantages and acting like you're doomed for failure for learning it sounds very nodev.
>>14103 >>14111 I checked and neither 3.1 or 3.2 has working occlusion culling, while LOD is both still broken and being replaced with a different implementation next release. As for the glTF 2.0 importer, it's supposedly better now but I haven't tried it in a while. Now, you still have frustrum culling and per-object render distances. This should be enough for games with sidescrolling or overhead camera perspectives, or for culling static indoor geometry. The GLES2 render is also probably good enough for many games and there's a summary of its differences at https://docs.godotengine.org/en/3.2/tutorials/misc/gles2_gles3_differences.html
>>14131 They don't develop or program, ignore them. >>14135 You're talking about years of scratch work vs fixing a few problems in an already stable environment of which others may need the same problems fixed. The costs refractoring existing code outweighs starting from nothing if you're just learning from the beginning. Maybe after 5 games out, then if he really wants to waste his time, I can see deep dive reprogramming as academic practice, but not get something done. >>14142 It's why I'm ignoring them both. >>14149 Then let's get to fixing, because they both used to work: https://invidio.us/search?q=Godot+lod https://invidio.us/search?q=Godot+occlusion+culling
I'm developing your ass with a sledgehammer and a bucket of kisses tbh.
>>14150 I want to mating press the kong
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>>14150 Whatever works, tbh. A full featured 3D engine is fucking complicated (not that you necessarily need every component from this diagram), so if you are developing it yourself you almost might not have a choice. Certainly you'll have to at least pull in an external lib for some of the subsystems like physics. Most any serious amateur game dev will probably do a mix of using frameworks, building their own small game engines, re-using or building small subsets, and making mods for existing games. I've never even built a 3D game though, so I'd defer to someone who has actually shipped one, especially as a solo project, any day of the week.
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>>14142 good luck writing your game engine in javascript
>>14159 Nobody said anything about making game engines with it, but even then there's nothing wrong with writing the engine for a browser game in javascript.
>>14164 Remember when Unity Technologies recreated MacroMind's Shockwave Player because ActiveX's Silverlight would not work on Sun Microsystems's run time environment. Good recurrence.
>>14159 Can just use TypeScript or any other number of languages that compile down to JS or WASM (Rust, C++). Then you draw directly to the canvas, or use webgl. You'll have a cross platform game with easy distribution, in a sandboxed environment. V8 is pretty fast these days anyways. Maybe GC will bite you in the ass though.
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i was thinking 3 enemies to keep it simple these two and the virgin
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whats a good native resolution for a sprite game that is raster graphics but not true pixel art? and what aspect ratio is best? i dont think 800x600 will be enough and im not sure if 4:3 is good since most people have widescreen monitors now
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storyboard for game over sequence
>>14140 >>14142 Someone could still have memorised actually true statements on the pros and cons of given programming languages or techniques without being able to implement them, the fact they might not know the full detail on why it's true doesn't change their being correct. Not necessarily saying the anon from earlier was correct, or making an actually detailed argument against Javascript, I'm just making a general point that you don't need to know why something is the case to be correct, hell you don't even need to know what the working alternative is. Correctness i.e. Truth =/= knowledge. Obviously if you know someone is correct only by parroting what someone else has said, or by luck, that's a good reason to disregard what they say later on but it doesn't make them incorrect on the first point.
>>14190 >>14184 >>14181 >>14176 peak 2000s flash game energy.
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intro storyboard
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basic gameplay writeup. want to keep mechanics simple with just enough variety to be fun. fun is most important i think. enemy waves should be small to start, then get a bit longer and more intense each time. but still, should not be that long. balance and fun will be the hardest part i think
>>14205 The easter egg better be a snuff film.
>>14206 It should be the one that the jap used in his kusoge for the death of jackie chans brothers. Funnily enough that was a photo of removed kebab.
>>14205 >other songs You'd better have a couple Moonman tracks.
Hey anon! Did you participate in the Global Game Jam (tm)? Did you finish? do you want to share?
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>in the 90s novalogic released an infinite world voxel engine that ran on toasters >20 years later people can't write a properly optimized voxel engine (that runs on current level hardware without choking) to save their life What the fuck happened? Not even "experts" can explain how the novalogic engine worked
>>14271 Are you asking why there isn't much algorithmic procedural generated universes in games that work by exploiting everything a complex instruction set computer has to offer with a base definition of what an operating system should contain? E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger ? Because if you are asking, the answer should be blatant enough that it would have led itself to become the norm if it was replicable.
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>>14065 I am pretty sure godot is just a meme new devs get baited into. Just look up how many good game were made in godot, it's 0, there is not a single good godot game. This means no dev worth anything ever chose godot. Use unity or unreal.
>>14312 It's almost too obvious
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>>14295 Did it expire today?
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Fresh pasta I am pretty sure cooming is just a meme teens got baited into. Just look up how many wojaks were made in Paint, it's 0, there is not a single good wojak. This means no artist worth anything ever chose paint. Use photoshop or krita. >>14316 A-apparently https://www.uspto.gov/patent/laws-and-regulations/patent-term-calculator#heading-2 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=12&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=6020893&OS=6020893&RS=6020893 I guess companies now can legally optimize their games finally!
I am pretty sure sigma is just a meme teenagers get baited into. Just look up how many good game were made in sigma, it's 0, there is not a single good sigma game. This means no dev worth anything ever chose sigma. Use doom 3 or source.
>>14319 >making an oomer meme Why would you do that?
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>>14329 y wuln't u?
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Does anyone have experience working with Construct 2? I had it recommended to me a few years ago as a decent beginner tool for learning scripting and playing in the engine equivalent of a kiddie sandbox. Never looked into it because I'm a nodev fag, but as long as we're discussing engines I figure I should bring it up because it's at least free and relatively lightweight.
Mark, posting shitty nujaks isn't going to drive anyone away from here and to your cuck castle at 8kun.
>>14346 I don't think a kike likes being offended by his literal persona. I'm pretty certain >>14335 is making fun of Unityshill.
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>>14349 >what's the best way to make fun of someone >cover myself in shit, that'll show them At this point I assume anyone who posts wojak to be a furry scat fetishist.
>>14349 I''m 99% sure he's just a cuckchan crossposter thirsty for attention.
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>>14351 That's exactly how I envision Unitydevs: https://www.dualshockers.com/meet-unity-chan-the-unity-engines-new-mascot-in-japan/ Note rabbits are a key symbol for pedophilic jews, because they breed like rabbits >>14353 You have the SauceNAO ID to prove it?
>>14354 >pedophilic jews >breed like rabbits How does it feel being an incel while jews fuck cute girls and have countless children with them?
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>>14355 I wouldn't know, I'm not a kike triggered by memes.
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>>14356 >more nujacks I miss the real Wojack. He had more depth to him and didn't need all these watered-down, spoonfeedy variations to express different feels.
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>>14356 Ah, so you ARE a furry faggot. Good to know.
Please take this horrible off topic posting elsewhere. >>14337 I haven't used Construct, but since nobody else replied I will. I checked out their website and the marketing language was way over the top, but the concept looks good for a nodev. An alternative could be to mod a game that is configurable by ini/yml/cfg and replacing assets. Or using tooling like Tiled or a dialog tree and working with a dev on a small project where you do all the asset creation.
is there a good engine for retard nodevs to make point and click adventure games? maybe something like what flash used to be?
>>14417 >point and click adventure games I've been told Scummvm is pretty good. I wouldn't know how it compares to Adobe Flash, but last time I used a frame scripting tween engine was 2 decades ago. People these days are using Opentoonz, Blender, and Pencil2D.
>>14417 You could try Adventure Game Studio.
>>14417 Clickteam Fusion, I used to make dumb point and click games with it. I don't think there's any vector or animation-based editors/engines like flash though.
>>14151 Holy shit is that a Duke Nukem reference?
Cakejew might've been a faggot but at least he cleaned up /agdg/ threads when cuckchan tourists tried to shit them up.
>>14417 Godot has a point-and-click adventure framework: https://github.com/godotengine/escoria
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Reminder that if any of you fags are making something in Godot, you can submit a short clip for their showreel and force a bunch of GDC attendees to sit through a couple seconds of it.
>>14505 No, he didn't.
>>14545 Cakekike occasionally banned cuckchan posters, but it was more as a funny spectacle than because he actually wanted to rid the board of them. I'm sure now that they're the majority on his board he wouldn't even consider it, since his top priority is population over everything else.
Where are all of the games? Why are there no game devs here? This place sucks, lets go back to 8kun. All in favour say aye.
>>14560 Because people who actually do things go to places where there's people to appreciate the things they do.
>>14560 There are game devs here, I'm just not doing anything at the moment.
>>14560 julaydups btfo
>>14534 According to these requirements, you could submit a video of something not even made in Godot and it would still qualify.
Anyone using one of the TS/JS ports of Box2D? If so did you have a positive experience? And which one is the best?
>>14570 >or tool It's meant to showcase anything that can be utilized for and incorporated into Godot3.x, like scripts, glTF2FBX converter, GGPO/ØMQ/WireGuard/I2P support, .dwg/dxf/IGES/JS/MA/MB/PLY/PRC/STEP/SKP/U3C/VRML/XML/3D* importer, GLES 2 & 3 branch forward compatibility, MESA+AMDGPU-PRO+RadeonSI support, Proton integration, Edit-while-encoding, AI implementations, RiscV + Jcore ports, etcs.. There's a whole lot to do, so little time.
>>14595 >Hello! I'm Erin Catto. I work at Blizzard Entertainment GL.
>>14604 I don't get it. Is there some other 2d physics engine for JS I should look into? Box2D was the only one I'd heard of. I just need rigid body physics.
I really love lua and luajit is also really really fast. I'm surprised it's used so little. Often makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong with using it. I feel for a scripting engine it strikes the perfect balance of simplicity, power and speed. I even compiled the interpreter for an old Pentium machine and DOS and even there it works at an acceptable speed. How much more can you possibly want? Yet it's used so rarely and piece of shit languages like python are everywhere. What gives?
>>14629 interpreted language, not scripting engine, whoops
>>14629 > DOS Turbo Pascal worked really nice there.
>>14635 Is Pascal worth getting into these days? I don't know of any newer games using it besides Hedgewars.
>>14629 Lua was used all over the place for vidya until somewhat more recently. Mostly because its downsides as a scripting language were offset by its speed. You also get weird things like Squirrel which were an attempt to more or less clone Lua but further move into specialising it for high performance for vidya needs. As for Lua's downsides feel free to go look them up but for example it comes with a very, very limited standard library which on the one hand helps with performance but on the other hand for real world uses rather than benchmarks you end up having to import stuff to cover the gaps or reimplement it yourself which erodes the performance benefit of not having them built in and is prone to user-introduced fuckups. A lot of those downsides are not a problem for vidya where you're doing a fairly limited set of things anyway but for serious real world projects, particularly those interacting with users, you tend to actually need e.g. hundreds of obscure ways to manipulate strings or arrays/array sub-types (arrays another area Lua is really poor at). You also get shit like lua having odd/undefined behaviour that pajeet-tier coders will tend to get caught out by. Or in short lua is fast because it's limited, so limited you more or less need to be embedding it into a program written in another language that does everything lua doesn't. Great for something like vidya where you're embedding it on top of a C/++ engine but terrible for when you want to knock up a project entirely or almost entirely in the scripting language, something that's common practice nowadays for many bits of non-vidya software where the theoretical performance hit of doing that is irrelevant in actual use. Python gets used for this 'everything in a scripting language' approach because it has a fuckton of built in functionality and anyone can learn it (unlike other scripting langauges retards won't tend to stumble into gotchas so much either).
>>14629 >>14659 Or as usual: pick your tools for the job/spec you've got. Programming languages are just another tool, don't do what people tend to do now and default to using the same 2-3 languages they're familiar with regardless of suitability. Lua's strength as a fast but limited and prone to the occasional odd bit of behaviour embedded language means picking it for the 'game logic' layer or whatever you want to call it is fine: you want performance, the engine is doing all the heavy lifting so limited functionality isn't important and at the end of the day a little bit of odd behaviour in the game's 'upper level' behaviour never hurt anyone. If you're programming something else where real time performance is less important but consistent behaviour and extensive built-ins are suitable go pick another scripting language or, if it's deemed suitable based on programmer and maintenance needs, don't use a scripting language at all.
How do you implement an attract mode? I'm thinking you record the game state as a time series but that doesn't sound particularly easy.
>>14742 Prerecorded or scripted. Cheaper to script.
>>14767 Is that what the old arcade games did? I'm thinking of something like Metal Slug
>>14887 Metal Slug is so scripted, TASbot creation was more easier than building it for Mario Bros. 2. Others did prerecorded videos. I prefer prior so it saves space overall. What else did you expect attract mode even was, saved states in limited hardware?
>>14911 What does scripting mean exactly then? All I can think of is "at point X in time, activate event Y" where the event is something like "shoot", "jump", etc. So you'd have to script the actions of all game entities, but it would be more lightweight than playing back all state. But then things like RNG could subtly change how the attract mode plays back, I'd think. >What else did you expect attract mode even was, saved states in limited hardware? Well yes, but when you put it like that, it makes sense that the memory cost might be too great even for short attract sequences. I'll have to look into TASbot, thanks.
>>15022 >what does scripting mean High-level instructions as opposed to low-level instructions. Batch/BASH scripting in Windows/Linux is high-level scripting because you're just invoking prebuilt commands that the OS already has. Writing a computer program in C isn't scripting because you're making your own commands as part of the program. >But then things like RNG could subtly change how the attract mode plays back, I'd think If RNG is deterministic, then it shouldn't. If RNG is non-deterministic, you can set the random number seed before the attract mode plays.
>>15022 I'm not >>15035 I mean literal scripting/staging a sequence. All enemies, NPCs, Stages, items, etc., are scripted to positions, if-else&case actions, including a robot player that demonstrates the game. Random seeds are generated at boot, in board timer, button popd, and coins. I used the TASBot as an example on how easily you can identify loops in memory and plan accordingly. My fav. attract modes are FGS that did keep a memory log on how many times people pushed a combination, and it only needed an int (255 bytes). Favorite solid example, Street fighter Alpha series. No one attract script is alike, because the same random picker is looped once. In 5 frames, it selects 2 players, stage, and startup actions, with AI "intelligence", and what you're watching is robots fight each other, but not two attracts are ever the same. The chances of that occurring is 1/16581375. Capcom System II is pretty well documented, CP3 still needs a few more things, but it's almost done.
>>15035 >you can set the random number seed before the attract mode plays. Ah of course! Thanks, anons. >I mean literal scripting/staging a sequence. All enemies, NPCs, Stages, items, etc., are scripted to positions, if-else&case actions, including a robot player that demonstrates the game. Random seeds are generated at boot, in board timer, button popd, and coins. Damn that sounds like a good chunk of work. I might just add some basic AI to the player, spawn him in a level and let emergent behavior happen as he "plays" the level since I don't care about showing the same attract mode sequence every time, more like your Street Fighter Alpha example.
>>15100 You can swap AIs with anything that should have intelligence. Most may just be a simple A* algorithm. You'll redraft this more than 3 times to optimize memory usage. Most just used bitwise operations to map out everything fast: https://github.com/kpshek/mm2pwd/blob/master/README.md If you have your AND OR NOT NAND NOR XOR XNOR memorized, you can literally do anything. Friend of mine posted to me sometime ago: https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator For now, make your unoptimized demo, refractor, and refractor yet again. It took me about 7-9 refactoring to optimize code to <KBs. Obviously, use a spritesheets to load everything quickly. JPEG-XL/FLIF is going to destroy image file formats entirely.
>>14742 Just play the game while logging key inputs, then use that to control the player. That way, you don't need to use a scripting language (at least for the player). As for RNG (assuming it's not deterministic), you can just use the same seed for the attract mode. Games like Super Mario 64 and Frogger 97 did this.
>>15196 Perfect. Thanks!
>>15112 >If you have your AND OR NOT NAND NOR XOR XNOR memorized, you can literally do anything. Can't you technically build every other logic gate from NAND anyway?
>>15237 NAND and NOR. Might not be maximally efficient from a hardware standpoint. Then again I only took a little EE so don't listen to me.
>>15243 Okay, that's what I get for being too terse. Both NAND and NOR are functionally complete by themselves. You can do what you described with either instruction alone.
>>15237 >>15244 “Can” and “Should” are quite opposite to getting him to understand LOGIC he'll need to reiterate until his game is fully fully optimized.
>>15244 I guess both are pretty similar in terms of functionality so that makes sense.
>>15245 Who's suggesting that this is anything a person should be doing? An anon asked a question and got an answer.
>>15236 Another thing to keep in mind is that you should still have a fail-safe in case the demo character somehow dies or completes a level. In that case, reset the intro or play another attract-mode. Also, the attract mode should not use the state of any save file. pannenkoek did an interesting video on how Super Mario 64's attract-mode could be exploited: https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=-0emgkIEobI
>>15334 I was recommended this with your embed: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Y5fnNIGvMAg&t=5m17s But yeah, attract modes should be more or less sandboxes that manipulate nothing in stored memory. It just spawns, plays itself, branches it's next iteration, and repeats. Think of it like building a screensaver, it's only job is spawn shit until a coin is inserted. Then time out if no insufficient coins were inserted before a full credit has been accounted for.
What the absolute fucking fuck is the Windows monitor API? It's literally impossible to just get the monitor refresh rate, size, and position relative to other monitors. First you have to call an enumerator function to get the first device (see: "device", not monitor). Then you call it again by using some random shit you get in order to get the next "device". You have to check the flags to find out if it's an actual monitor or just an empty slot (this isn't documented by the way so I'm assuming this is what you're meant to do). If it's a valid device then you get a third of the information about the display. Yes, a third of it. In fact it's not even any information about the display, it's just what you need for the other thirds. To get the second third of the information (least important, it's just the monitor name), you need to call the same enumerator AGAIN inside the previous enumeration, this time using a fucking name string that's something like "\\.\DISPLAY7\" that you got from the previous call. To get the last and most important third of the information, you need to call a different enumerator function (using the name string again). But after all that shit, you still don't know which monitor is the primary monitor, nor where the monitors are positioned relative to each other. In order to get this, you need to call a different enumerator just kidding, this one uses a callback instead of enumerator for no reason, just to spice things up and make it more confusing. You need to send a callback function into a completely different function, and then the callback gets automatically called once for every monitor, and you get the monitor position. BUT WAIT, if you want to find out which monitor is the primary one, you need to call another function inside the callback, this will tell you whether the monitor is primary, and also give you the monitor position (again). But what I didn't tell you, is that there's literally no connecting information between these two methods. There's no way I've found to actually tell which monitor information is related to which monitor positions. If there's one reason to discourage people from enginedev, it's that the operating system you need to build it on is a fucking steaming pile of shit.
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>>15806 10/10 subscribed and upvoted, will tell my friends about it too honestly you made my day, thanks
>>15806 W OO-WEE LAD wew
>>15806 >Windows Now you have 99 problems.
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>>15875 These statistics aren't accurate, because not everyone who uses Steam allows these analytics to datamine them, especially if they use Linux. It doesn't really provide any significant difference, if you use Steam in the first place.
>>15879 >because not everyone who uses Steam allows these analytics to datamine them If you use steam then you are allowing them to datamine you
>>15875 You're even more retarded than I thought: <Missing Azure Linus, Microsoft edition <Missing Fedora, Suse, and CentOS Linux that power 72% of all servers in the world <Missing Android Linux and iOS which share even greater market than PC Steam Android never ever. >>15879 Let him keep sucking Microsoft's honeytrap, 73% of his demographic can't even play games, and even SNK considered Switch only ports.
>>15806 Alright I think I finally cracked it. There's a special extended version of one of the info structs, it gives you the monitor name (\\.\DISPLAY) which allows you to replace the whole main enumerator loop with the callback method. There's no Windows function that's made for it though, so you have to cast it's pointer into the original version. If you don't care about a more specific monitor name than "\\.\DISPLAY1" (I think it'll be "Generic PnP monitor" or something anyway) or handling errors, then the whole thing becomes pretty simple. "Simple" as in the result is simple, finding this result is not simple at all. I cleaned it up and am posting it here to hopefully prevent at least one future dev from having to tear off hair over this shit. BOOL CALLBACK displayEnumCallback(HMONITOR monitorHandle, HDC deviceContextHandle, LPRECT monitorRect, LPARAM myCustomData) { MONITORINFOEXA monitorInfo = {.cbSize = sizeof(MONITORINFOEXA)}; GetMonitorInfoA(monitorHandle, (MONITORINFO*)&monitorInfo); DEVMODEA devMode = {.dmSize = sizeof(DEVMODEA)}; EnumDisplaySettingsA(monitorInfo.szDevice, ENUM_CURRENT_SETTINGS, &devMode); printf("Name: %s - %ihz - Resolution: w %i, h %i - Position: x %i, y %i - Primary: %i\n", monitorInfo.szDevice, // monitor "name", maybe. This is needed for some other queries, such as getting a more specific monitor name. devMode.dmDisplayFrequency, // refresh rate devMode.dmPelsWidth, // width, also obtainable with (monitorRect->right - monitorRect->left) devMode.dmPelsHeight, // height, also obtainable with (monitorRect->bottom - monitorRect->top) monitorRect->left, // x monitorRect->top, // y (monitorInfo.dwFlags & MONITORINFOF_PRIMARY)?TRUE:FALSE // primary monitor. ); } EnumDisplayMonitors(NULL, NULL, displayEnumCallback, 0); That should get all the most important information about your monitors. You can also call EnumDisplaySettingsA directly with NULL to get the size and refresh rate much easier, but it doesn't give any other information, and it defaults to some monitor and doesn't tell you anything about the others.
>>16017 Do you really have to talk to Windows directly for this shit? I'm all for removing abstraction where its not necessary, but in the case of windows I don't really see what you gain by carrying out this masochistic approach. Why not use GLFW or one of the other six million windowing abstraction libraries? Are you doing something similar for X11?
>>16866 There's a lot of reasons, but primarily I hate using other people's shit, so I want to depend on as little of it as possible. Most of Windows isn't this bad anyway.
>>16912 something like SDL would make stuff easier to port tho I assume.
>>17053 That's not attractive enough to overthrow the advantages of doing it myself.
Apparently someone took my advice, for the wrong reasons https://gameliberty.club/@YandereDev

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