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Stealth vidya Anonymous 12/08/2019 (Sun) 08:43:33 No.7152
Any of the recent indieshit stealth titles actually any good? I can never filter out quality from stuff journalists are shilling. Also general stealth vidya thread. Metal Gear welcome, MGS can fuck off.
my favorite stealth game is civilizaion 6
choose huge continents map, only 1 AI, then you pick korea and you win the game with a science victory before you even encounter the enemy


mgs suck big dick and is confirmed to only be enjoyed by trannies and boys ages 12-17 in the 90s
>>7152
You got me, was about to make a stealth thread one of these days. There's not many stealth games anyways so i was planning in making some charts for OC reasons.
I'm going to throw some names, make a small time rating based on 3 stars (Essential, Recommended, Only for genre fans) and divide between series, one-offs and "indie"/small-time endeavors. And a small description depending on which category is in.
>MGS bad but the shitty MSX games and the terrible NES game good
Shit thread, kill yourself.
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Here's a few names, i know i'm missing a lot of indie stuff and a couple of big ones but being completely honest i haven't played or read that much.
Could only make descriptions and rating based on what i did play, which is not that much either.
>>7173
You missed Deus Ex Mankind Divided, the other Styx game and a game called ECHO. Its not that good but has a real cool gimmick of the enemies learning actions from you.
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>>7174
Done, here's the covers, only needs to be cleaned and pasted into a template i have to do, but one thing arised.
There needs to be a sticker at some corner regarding the origin of the chart, aka we need to plaster our logo there... but what can we paste? While risky we can put Julay.World's logo but from what i can gather, there is none. We can put the old place logo but i feel that would be disrespecting this new home, we can put the old /v/-tan but that was made by thirsty kojidrones back in the day and awkwardly represents a MGS character, we can put the 8c anon but again we are not at the old shack...
So it brings us to the playful, campy but always present point, what is our image at this moment?

Also while searching a couple of these images i found 2nd pic related, has awful/nonexistent art style but the idea and implementation seems very interesting, the idea itself is ancient but someone has finally made it.
>>7188
if you want a logo that represents us, but doesnt actually lead back here, why not /vg/ or some variation on it?
after all /vg/ is dead
/vg/ is eternal
hail /vg/
There are no truly great stealth games, unfortunately. The implementation of stealth in many games antithetical to enjoyment because they focus on the inaction. Ground Zeroes and Hi™an 2 do this best because they're more focused on manipulation and have great open-level design, but they still don't scratch the itch. Splinter Cell has that decent gameplay though there are still some glaring issues in regards to level design and AI and I just haven't really enjoyed Thief all that much.
>>7231
>Ground Zeroes
glad im not the only one
every shits on 5, and rightly so, but GZ was an interesting, very well designed map. a fraction of the size of either levels in 5, but with about a thousand times more shit to do. admittedly though, my not being jaded about it might be a direct result of not buying it. when it came out it was in the redbox across the street from me for a $1/day. im sure if i had bought it full price idve felt substantially more burned. but as it was, i just had a really good time for about 3 days.

imo, if 5 had come out and had a segmented open world comprised of a bunch of levels like that, instead of the barren bullshit they ended up shitting out, im convinced that the game wouldve been absolutely __fun___. the engine itself was quite satisfying to fuck around in, but other than a small handful of buildings and caves in the far flung corners of each map, there wasnt anything even close. just a bunch of copypasted guard outposts.
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>>7234
I bought GZ full price thinking it was the actual V.
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>>7172
>Disliking original MG
Plebs please leave.
>>7171
A chart wouldn't be a bad idea.
>>7173
Hidden & Dangerous 2 probably counts. Dishonored and ASSCREED are pushing the definition of stealth, if they're anywhere they need to be stuck under optional runs.

Also NOLF and NOLF 2.
>>7231
>I just haven't really enjoyed Thief all that much.
Disgusting.

Higher difficulties tend to play better, adding more objectives, restrictions and guards. Also you absolutely need a good pair of headphones. Check out TFix and whatever Thief II currently has in the way of fanpatches too or they'll play weird. Also if you really can't tolerate I and II then Deadly Shadows can be a surprisingly decent introduction into the series with less of an archaic feel. DS has https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138607 as an optional fanpatch to remove consolised shit in the game but you could go with vanilla easily enough.
What would it take to make stealth fun? Is it even possible?
Don't get me wrong, there are fun stealth games, but the mechanic itself is flawed. Waiting for guards to follow programmed routes, waiting in shadows. Instakill.
>>7261
>Waiting for guards to follow programmed routes
...isn't really what you do in the good stealth games. Thief has turning off lights or distracting them with bows etc for example. Hitman has coins and DISGUISES first of all. Or you can go Rambo in there as well.
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>>7267
Good point.
>>7257
It's definitely not the archaic feel that prevents me from enjoying it. I just finished vanilla Deus Ex, which is capped at 30FPS and has an old renderer that makes everything too dark. Before that I was playing System Shock through a small window in Dosbox as opposed to the Enhanced Edition. Both these games have been in my backlog for a while now and I'd go through only a section of the first level before getting bored and dropping it. I have this thing where I get really excited and try something out, give up on it for a while until I've adjusted my expectations and realize it's not what I want to do at the moment, and then once I get the craving I know exactly what to look for. Deus Ex, for example, took me four years before I even bothered to go to the other dock or enter the Statue of Liberty. I'll give Thief another go in the future and probably enjoy it a lot more then.
>>7287
>I just finished vanilla Deus Ex, which is capped at 30FPS and has an old renderer that makes everything too dark
You can solve some of this with Deus Exe by the way.
>I have this thing where I get really excited and try something out, give up on it for a while until I've adjusted my expectations and realize it's not what I want to do at the moment, and then once I get the craving I know exactly what to look for. Deus Ex, for example, took me four years before I even bothered to go to the other dock or enter the Statue of Liberty. I'll give Thief another go in the future and probably enjoy it a lot more then.
Yeh I know the feeling. That's why I suggested doing DS first if all else fails. Sometimes starting with a simplier later game can get you into the series before you properly get into the original game. Thief also has a fairly slow start, though not as slow as DX, so that doesn't help.
>>7188

Do you want short reviews like the Vita chart had? I could do them for all the Hitmans until BM. BTW, I don't think HC47 is really a true stealth game. Disguises are OP because you do not ever get detected. You can kill people without penalty if you hide them; and again, with a disguise, you can just walk up to them to fibre wire them. Half of the missions also require you to go Rambo.
>>7173
>Hitman Blood Money
Still the best Hitman game of all time.

>Splinter Cell
Everything except Conviction is god tier. Yes, even Blacklist.

>Assassin's Creed
Not stealth games, not in the slightest. It's a "climb this shit and stab that guy"

>Deus Ex Human Resources
You can machinegun the civvies and there are no consequences.
>>7335
Sometimes Contracts to beats out Blood Money for best Hitman in my books. Generally depends which I played last. Both great though.
>>7173
>>7188
Some other recent games to consider adding:
Alien: Isolation
Dishonored 2
Dishonored: Death of the Outsider
Hitman (2016)
Hitman 2 (2018)
>>7355
Also
Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Splinter Cell Blacklist

Some indie shit:
Ghost of a Tale
Volume

Also if Assassin's Creed 1 of all things is going to be on this list, then at the very least you should add Assassin's Creed Unity to the list as well, since it's the only other game in that awful franchise which had some fairly open ended assassination missions where you get to scout out a location, find the target,eliminate the target, then escape the area. Almost none of the other Assassin's Creed games follow this formula except for Assassin's Creed Syndicate, but Syndicate was trash while Unity was good and still pretty beautiful to look at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXztmsPqB4s
>>7342
I prefer Contracts TBH. The missions are at least a step above BM (Meat King's Party or Beldingford Manor beat anything BM has to offer).
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>>7355
>hitman
>stealth
>>7261
Rather than be designed around inaction, it should be based on manipulation. They're puzzle games, and therefore need to be designed as such. >>7267 makes a point, but I'm of the opinion that there needs to be more than coin tossing and light switching.


>>7356
>you should add Assassin's Creed Unity to the list as well, since it's the only other game in that awful franchise which had some fairly open ended assassination missions where you get to scout out a location, find the target,eliminate the target, then escape the area
Stop pretending like AssCreed Unity is good. It has hints of open-endedness and certainly an increased emphasis on stealth, but this is mostly limited to the first assassination mission in the game as afterwards both the level design and character building are thrown out the window.

In the first mission, there are four ways of entry, directly, which is challenging unless you did a bunch of side missions and purchased a good weapon, through lockpicking, which is only possible if you have the skill to do so, thievery, where you pickpocket either a guard or a priest, and through a secret entrance, which is really only known about if you've entered the cathedral before the mission or remember it from an in-game map you may or may not have seen located in an apartment you've visited because it is essential in a side quest that you've most certainly done as you would otherwise not have the mechanism that enables you to activate the secret entrance in the first place. These are all excellent ways and are reminiscent of immersive sims. This latter option of indirectly altering the mission through an unrelated activity never happens again and it is either the result of a creative vacuum and/or dumbing things down for normalfags. It never expands to more than two scripted opportunities with Hitman levels of obviousness that are one-offs rather than chains of events and in the final mission, there are none and only two methods of infiltration. After this first assassination, the scope of the game contracted rather than expanded.
>>7356
>unity
>stealth
I'll concede that it forces you to use "stealth", but the only reason that is, is because the combat is so shit you might as well just stab the fucker and high tail it out of there.
i bet everyone itt already heard about it, but worth mentioning anyway: shadow tactics: blades of the shogun
>>7342
>>7363
Contracts has better individual missions but Blood Money is more consistent and a better overall game.
>>7396
Good point.
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Is there even a single good stealth game or is this just a shitty genre in general? I remember liking the Commandos games long ago but I have a feeling if I actually tried them now I would hate them just like I hate all the other isometric RPGs of the late '90s.
>>7472
RTT offers the best stealth in any game.
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>>7206
My intention was to represent the board, so yeah they can come in and probably that's part of the part, taste and knowledge represented. /vg/ carries on in spirit but there's a new roof over us. I'm a little distracted because a friend gave me a USB with Kingdom Come Deliverance and i got hooked with it, great stuff but the stealth aspect/routing is half-baked, has many options but the insistence of trying to make everything balanced because muh realism makes everything a pain and a chore. Still it gives me my dose of house-breaking, disguising, trespassing and thieving i wanted.

>>7253
The point of adding shit like Assassin's Creed and Dishonored was because i forgot to mention a "Historical" tab alongside "Optional Run". I wanted to make 2 charts, one with all the shit we interpret (knowledge) and another with the stuff we actually like (taste). While AC is utter shit it has its spot in the genre timeline, and in my playthroughs only the first one can be seen as having a semblance of wanting to be a stealth game, but it fought with the action sequences and mechanics, ultimately losing to them to cater to a wider audience in AC2. Haven't played anything after AC3 so i cannot comment. Plot-wise i would also think AC1 is a good experience, it shat the table with the ridiculousness of Ezio and rampant chronological revisionism (let alone ideological) but that's another story.
Same with Dishonored and Deus Ex HR, an interesting but somewhat failed attempt at a stealth game due to too many action-oriented interruptions (in Deus Ex's defense is just a failed route). Imagine the Historical chart as a "General view" or "Try it if you are really desperate"

>>7335
Contemporary Clancy games have the peculiarity of having side-modes more interesting than the main campaign. Blacklist and Conviction had standalone levels to clear up, which was great fun, same with Rainbow Six Vegas games having small Urban Warfare levels not attempting at all to be considered tactical, just plain street war in an isolated building/street.

>>7355
>>7356
How the hell did i forget Alien Isolation. But yes, thanks for the heads up with the rest, i don't know many recent stuff so i cannot judge or mention them. New Hitman games are bizarre to me, i have a very bad experience with the James Bond reboot and seeing it applied to Hitman just sours my mouth up.
About AC, well, now you know the reasons, but we can add Unity as an "anomaly". It's a board-wide chart after all.

>>7342
I personally prefer Contracts, it's the right balance between mechanics, levels, atmosphere and music, but probably a bit easy. Blood Money is perhaps the best one mechanically, but the plot (which dictates the level and atmosphere consistency, that's what plot is in video game world) is crap with a few level exceptions, and the gunplay from the previous game (Contracts/Freedom Fighters) was ditched and only had customizable weapons as a pro. A very shaky boat Blood Money is, but it still is mad fun.

Also considering that it seems many dislike or have grudges with the genre in general, that's what it is in a genre not developed enough due to the audience preferring other things, and the creators trying to polish the old instead of creating new ways. And about everything being shit in the genre, well what can we do about it? why do we even play them then?
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>>7313
Vita one had its font very tiny, but something akin to that, general description and another for a small group for quick rundown in gameplay. I can do many of them, but i can sure use one from anyone and read it well so the writing interprets what everyone said.
>I don't think HC47 is really a true stealth game
>Disguises are OP because you do not ever get detected
Just like most levels in Contracts and vast majority of them in Blood Money?
>You can kill people without penalty if you hide them
It doesn't have a ghost run but about killing without penalty, same can be said about Splinter Cell and Riddick. Stealth interpreted there as "don't get caught". Ninja games wouldn't be included there either if that was the rule, part of the whole argument regarding Predatory, Tactical and Social stealth ramifications/aspects. PTS(D), we need a D aspect in there if you know what i mean.
>and again, with a disguise, you can just walk up to them to fibre wire them
Just like in Blood Money with the slow pace walk? or the Gen 6 Contracts with the original fast crouching speed? I'm not trying to annoy you, i clearly understand the point but Codename 47 was very rough, a first intention so it didn't have the ways to ghost it or do some other antics, but it did many things right that build a good foundation, enough to be considered stealth...
>Half of the missions also require you to go Rambo.
Until we reach that point, i wouldn't say HALF of them but certainly a lot. IIRC they are the Chinese Restaurant medallion hit (i think you can poison the drinks without shooting but it's very difficult, haven't tried it), Plane wreck in Colombia 1 (unless the bridge can be crossed with military uniform, haven't tried it), Rotterdam Harbor 1 and 2 (a real butcher fest that is) and the final level which is a final confrontation with pic related.
I know the devs made the final levels in 2, Contracts and Blood Money being able to be completed stealthy (In BM case, half baked or almost raw due to level being incomplete after devs quitted) but if there was a level were you have to go guns out, it was that one. Devs didn't even try to remade it in Contracts, unlike Colombia which was ditched due to being too long.
>>7472
Commandos series isn't RPG. They are pretty decent on the stealth mechanics with how you can approach situations and how enemies react to your actions but only the first two games are any decent.
Suffers more from having very specific patterns with how to deal with certain missions, making it feel more of a puzzle game than a stealth game.
>>7474
>RTT
wat
>>7516
Real Time Tactiqué
>>7498
>The point of adding shit like Assassin's Creed and Dishonored was because i forgot to mention a "Historical" tab alongside "Optional Run". I wanted to make 2 charts, one with all the shit we interpret (knowledge) and another with the stuff we actually like (taste). While AC is utter shit it has its spot in the genre timeline, and in my playthroughs only the first one can be seen as having a semblance of wanting to be a stealth game, but it fought with the action sequences and mechanics, ultimately losing to them to cater to a wider audience in AC2. Haven't played anything after AC3 so i cannot comment. Plot-wise i would also think AC1 is a good experience, it shat the table with the ridiculousness of Ezio and rampant chronological revisionism (let alone ideological) but that's another story.
Two charts might be easier then. Or one chart with a section for historical.
>Contemporary Clancy games have the peculiarity of having side-modes more interesting than the main campaign. Blacklist and Conviction had standalone levels to clear up, which was great fun, same with Rainbow Six Vegas games having small Urban Warfare levels not attempting at all to be considered tactical, just plain street war in an isolated building/street.
Coop is also far more fun in every Splinter Cell after Chaos Theory.
>>7313
>Half of the missions also require you to go Rambo.
This is quite true. Though I'll admit, the Lee Hong Assassination level is more fun with the "leave no one alive, even the ladies" mentality. The way the ragdolls move around when you shoot them is a bit unnatural.
>>7499
>Plane wreck in Colombia 1
Different anon here, yes you do need to do some shooting if the guards see you. Many people complained a lot about that mission since the whole map was just filled with green here and green there. Even worse, the path from the tribal ground to the bridge is damn long. And imagine running to the bridge to end the level while looking around you, making sure that no guard sees you and start shooting.
>>7541
All jungle missions suck. They're the sewer levels of outdoor settings, except there are occasional good sewer levels but AI detection and pathfinding can't handle jungles satisfyingly.
I liked Invisible Inc
>Turn Based Tactics with movement points, actions are free but tasers/weapons have cool down
>Audiable stealth is binary, you have some actions like sprinting, breaking a door or shooting that make noise and some that don't.
>Visual stealth is two stages and line of sight based. The first stage is peripheral vision where the guard will go investigate whatever crossed that vision, this includes doors that were closed and then opened in the view of the guard and the places where you're spotted and get held up at gunpoint. Cameras and drones don't have peripheral vision and cover can block either vision type
>has a security meter that increments every turn/on getting spotted/killing guards/doing certain actions, every 5 increments the security systems get a buff. Firewalls get stronger, guards change up patrols, more guards, eventually culminates in one of your agents getting their location(at the start of the turn) marked and sending guards your way
>Hacking's a thing, you have a support AI that can hack devices like cameras, drones, sound bugs, turrets and most importantly, safes. It's a resource management aspect mostly, your agents can hack terminals that provide power to the AI's abilities and the AI has abilities to restore power, and abilities to break firewalls in the AoE/single shot/DoT varieties and it's up to you to choose what's what
>Four factions which determine which type of security you'll face, one has mission wide scanners that if you don't hurry marks one of your agent's turn locations which puts guards(they move further and every move ends in them looking left and right) in alert and makes things more difficult, a drone based faction, a cybernetics based faction(guards have implants that let them enhance devices like incrementing their firewalls every turn, recapturing capturing devices or spawning a daemon on them) and a dude based faction(usually they have the most guards, armors, gear, etc)
>Lets you spend a movement point to observe guards which lets you know where they'll be moving next turn
>Guard AI is actually pretty neat, if they get knocked out and wake up again, they'll automatically go on alert, and will favor going through rooms for which doors are open, meaning you can lead
>You can also pin down/drag around a knocked guard with an agent to pause the wake up timer

I wish there were more mods for it because the balance is ass and the content is limited. man I'm going to look like a tard if redtext doesn't work here
<Internationale is easily the best starting agent because she can remote hack terminals and remote detect any hackable devices, meaning you get to spot any cameras through rooms, hack them and get a shitton of vision just by selecting her. Starting agents depend on what augments and gear they start with, and every starting gear/augment combination is shit, but Internationale's is godlike
<Lethal weapons are shit, even for a last ditch effort. They cost too much, and so do the armor piercing variants, they increment security counters massively and they make too much noise to the silent non-lethal tasers or the non-lethal ranged attacks that come with some downside like spawning a daemon or increasing firewalls
<Getting a third agent is too much of a drain on your resources early game, and late game you get too many credits and not enough opportunities to spend them(because stores are randomized) so a third agent has no downsides to upgrading them
<Certain mission types are way too risky for what little rewards they give. Particularly security vaults and the corresponding vault key missions
<The previously mentioned scanner device faction is preferable to the rest because disabling the security devices is a free additional 1k credits
<Anarchy is overpowered
<maps are procedurally generated and it get
Now, are there any lewd h- stealth games, preferably of the yuri kind?
4k characters are too few, damn you. Turrent next post
>>7547
<Maps are procedurally generated and it gets too repetitive quickly, especially since all the maps share the same visuals
<most augments are shit tier and worthless
<most gear is shit tier and worthless(econ chip, lethal gear, tasers with no armor pierce and require power to operate)
<The ending mission is either the best or the worst mission in the game, depending on how its layed out
<contingency plan secondary objectives makes certain missions outright impossible, depending on the layout.
But it's pretty fun and it gives me the same feelings as when I was starting out A Better XCOM 2 and every mission was difficult and risky, because your agents never become godlike and no amount of gear or upgrades is going to fix getting spotted and getting put in a tricky situation
https://god-gog.netlify.com/games/invisible_inc.html
>>7547
>has a security meter that increments every turn/on getting spotted/killing guards/doing certain actions, every 5 increments the security systems get a buff. Firewalls get stronger, guards change up patrols, more guards, eventually culminates in one of your agents getting their location(at the start of the turn) marked and sending guards your way
The way this increments is my biggest complaint about the game: the artificial feeling time-limit it adds just to cover for the lack of a hand-designed map/content and instead just a lazy way to create tension and difficulty. Also it penalises my preferred playstyle of taking stealth games slow and removing guards systematically.
>>7554
I think it's perfect for the way maps are, but would be terrible for larger handcrafted maps.
Marvelous Miss Take is a nifty little stealth game.

>>7188
I pirated a version a year or two ago. It was decent, but pretty jank. I wonder if they have fixed it now. For balance reasons they had the police work a certain way but it wasn't realistic. If you were seen or caught by anyone, they would instantly call the police telepathically and the police would arrive about thirty seconds later.
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>>7541
I actually didn't really dislike it at all, but it was obvious the design and general demeanor was out of context, not what the Hitman games would build upon, not even the camo disguise 47 uses. Guards were not so much of a problem as they were few, and the whole thing can be traversed along the river. Note that i played the GOG version, i don't know if previous ones had more people or were more picky.
The final Colombia segment was actually pretty good but tough as nails due to disguise detection, i get uppity when i read CN47 had perfect disguises because in that mission you get shot on sight if you even walk funny or show face more than 3 seconds with any disguise. Still it had an interesting reward in that if you pick the Sniper Rifle dropped in the first segment (Plane Wreck) you can carry it all over to this segment and shoot from a few meters of the starting position the drug lord daddy snorting sugar in front of a window. Planting the bomb is another joke.

>>7547
>lewd stealth games
>Sneaking houses to rob pantsu or downright groping people
Not a bad idea actually, it has its cultural place in society. But it will spiral into something like those videos of dudes jacking off stealthy to sitting women in public places.
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>>7577
>Sneaking houses to rob pantsu or downright groping people
Not exactly what I had in mind.
>>7577
>starting position the drug lord daddy snorting sugar in front of a window.
The major advantage to getting the Sniper Rifle. Another thing about the triple jungle levels is that whatever you buy at the first part (plane wreck), that's ALL YOU HAVE. If you run out of ammo or lose your possessions by any means, sorry fucko, you're screwed when the assassination finale comes in. I mean they could've told us about that at the beginning but noooo. Unless I'm mistaken. In my defence, it's been a while since I stopped playing the first game.
>>7577
>The final Colombia segment was actually pretty good but tough as nails due to disguise detection, i get uppity when i read CN47 had perfect disguises because in that mission you get shot on sight if you even walk funny or show face more than 3 seconds with any disguise.

It's been a very long time since I've played C47, but AFAIK, that's not how it worked. Disguises were perfect except for the guys inside the drug lord's mansion, who were programmed to say something like "find another place to hang around". You could still just fibre wire those guards as long as no one saw you do it. Of course, you had to do it to everyone inside the mansion - otherwise they'd hear the shootout between you and the drug lord. Which is when they become more suspicious and the disguise stops being OP.


>>7580
There was a bunch of ammo and weapons lying around in that mission, though. You could even take a fucking minigun and kill everyone IIRC.
>>7555
That's because its designed to cover up the flaws in procedurally generated maps not to be a system for proper stealth gameplay.
>>7586
No argument there, I wish they'd consider overhauling the entire thing for an Invisible Inc 2, but I doubt they'll be making that over whatever shit tier Slay the Spire clone Griftlands is supposed to be.
It makes for some really good maps when the layout of the maps allows for it. One of the mid-campaign missions was the absolute best god damned missions I've had in many TBT games and I had to pull off some sick moves to get out with all of my guys intact.
>>7587
I just wish they'd use the same underlying concepts and systems with a properly made game. There's a lot of neat ideas in there that could really be build on but like you said why bother when they can just churn out another rogue'lite' game where content is nothing more than a few algorithms.
>>7584
>except for the guys inside the drug lord's mansion
You could hang around but with the captain/high-ranking/cool guy disguise. They looked the same but had stars in the shoulders. There's 2 or 3, one of them sleeping in the only room in the third floor. Same disguise to be used when planting the bomb, which means it only gave you a 10 second window until the guys inside start questioning why are you bald all of the sudden.
In the Hotel level i cannot say anything, the bellboy disguise is massive, in Hospital the butt naked loonie disguise can even stop the SWAT team (kind of the point) but gets you tased when seen by the burly guys, which is only one i think. Harbor levels are dookie, not even the remade one made much sense even when it gave a few more options to complete (Barret Rifle shot to the boat's window).
>>7589
Me too.
Speaking of stealth TBT, is Phantom Doctrine any good? It kind of raised some red flags for me because lets you play as mossad but I figure I'll just play the other two factions and fuck them up instead.
>>7595
Not played it yet, but I hear it has actual maps made by a human for a change so there's that. Pirate it and report back.
>>7601
Eh, sure. My ABE Xcom 2 campaign is almost done anyways so I'll try it, and apparently the mossad is an unlockable post game thing so I'll just not play that.
>>7593
>You could hang around but with the captain/high-ranking/cool guy disguise. They looked the same but had stars in the shoulders. There's 2 or 3, one of them sleeping in the only room in the third floor. Same disguise to be used when planting the bomb, which means it only gave you a 10 second window until the guys inside start questioning why are you bald all of the sudden.
Genuinely didn't know that. Interesting info, thanks!
>In the Hotel level i cannot say anything, the bellboy disguise is massive,
Is it? IIRC it just lets you in for like 5 seconds to put the towel down. Not enough time to have even a good look around.
>in Hospital the butt naked loonie disguise can even stop the SWAT team (kind of the point) but gets you tased when seen by the burly guys, which is only one i think.
Wasn't that in Contracts?

C47's "stealth" is just so pathetic. It's too bad, because aside from that, I think it's actually a great game. Soundtrack is peak Jesper, story is absolutely amazing even when the game isn't really about it. Top tier level design. All that's missing is Contracts' stealth mechanics.
Tried Phantom Doctrine. This is "stealth" in the sense that you start in stealth and then blow your cover when you start shooting so it has shit to do with this thread I suppose.
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>>7617
>Is it?
Gets you by inertia the bell boy key that opens every room, the disguise which makes you go to every room except the pool and the guarded room.
>5 seconds to put the towel down
I always interpreted it was only just that to simply get into the guard's back and wire him (tough because he's in the wall), then put him inside and crouch besides the bed and when the other guy sees him, wire him too and leaving the place empty.
Lots of killing but the alternative is wiring/knifing the guy from the balcony by jumping from the room besides it.
The "problem" or aspect of CN47 is that it qualifies performance by the money you used, so if you kill everyone in a terrorist shootout but you found all the supplies on-field, it's a good job, according to 47 because the agency has to clean shit up. It was a game with overly stealth aspects that won over the action ones, unlike AC. Silent Assassin was targeted to that niche popular at the time and went over the top with it, easily the hardest game in the series as it takes everything to the top, even the footstep noise that isn't brought again in latter games, but at the cost of not having many alternative ways to complete a level and these son of a bitches right here.

>>7579
I guess i projected a little too much. Went for the viewer instead of the view itself.
>>7618
It could be predator stealth but that only applies if you go loud for a bit then go back into the shadows for the next strike.
>>7619
>Silent Assassin was targeted to that niche popular at the time and went over the top with it, easily the hardest game in the series as it takes everything to the top, even the footstep noise that isn't brought again in latter games, but at the cost of not having many alternative ways to complete a level and these son of a bitches right here.
Honestly SA is pretty obnoxious because of this, at least on a first playthrough. If you don't play it in one of the narrow ways the devs intended you get penalised heavily.
>>7619
>I always interpreted it was only just that to simply get into the guard's back and wire him (tough because he's in the wall), then put him inside and crouch besides the bed and when the other guy sees him, wire him too and leaving the place empty.

TBH I never tried that. I was like 14 when first completing C47 and always thought the balcony was the only way. Nice to see that the bellboy option is viable though.

>ninjas

I don't even think Hidden Valley was meant to be completed stealthily. It's just too convenient to kill everyone with the sniper rifle. The "checking your ID" stuff is just an excuse since you can't actually get a proper "ID". The only way to get SA rating in Hidden Valley is to abuse the shit AI by putting them to sleep from behind while they are checking the "ID" of the air in front. Really, there should either have been a way to get an "ID", a Master Ninja disguise, or just to follow certain routes so that they think you're just patrolling.
>>7619
Hidden Valley is the reason why I haven't replayed SA since.
>>7619
>>7623
>>7628
>>7631
Did these nipniggers faggots spot you and start screaming YAME YAME! at you from further away than guards in other levels or was that just how it felt?
I could've sworn other guards wouldn't say or do shit unless you were fairly close.
>>7188
How about those all of those sniper games? Sniper Elite series, Sniper: Ghost Warrior series. Are those any good? Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts came out just last month and looks decent for some eurojank. Anyone play it yet?
>>7655
Sniper Elite 1 and 2 are great for stealth, the first one being a stealth game in essence. The rest is meh.
>>7152
Have you played The Dark Mod yet? It's basically a new Thief game made by diehard fans. An actual Thief game, not like nuThief. It's also completely free.

Link: https://www.thedarkmod.com/main/
Download: https://www.thedarkmod.com/downloads/
>>7637
Haha, yeah they did. It's actually supported historically: http://ninjaencyclopedia.com/ninja/training.html.
>To begin with, an oil lampstand was turned on, and in front of them, Japanese paper was set and the ninja opened some tiny holes on the paper. The training was that ninjas counted the number of holes from afar.

I really like the multi-language voice acting in Silent Assassin, by the way. Really gives it its charm.
>>7637
Yeah, those are the ones. But to be fair they noticed you from far away but actually screamed when they came to inspect you and realized something was wrong, otherwise they would just walk behind you until they got mad, which was a lot.
The worse is the wooden floor part of the building. I never tried to 0 those Japan levels other than the hit against Hayamoto's son, the japenese modern house, which was actually a shitty level as the method to complete it is very specific, almost tile hunting because you had to walk because the faggot son of a whore didn't want to eat his shitty blowfish sushi at all for the remainder of the level if there was any noise outside, so you had to walk slowly to the kitchen, and there was a timer because the level starts with the chef going directly to the kitchen to cut the fish and serve it; you barely make it with 10 seconds to wire/sedate the guy and serve him the fish with the chip inside.

>>7623
>>7628
>>7631
Being honest i didn't even 0 or completed them with penalties, i just ran to the end until i didn't get gib'd by the arcade-tier sniper rifles (which realistically are extremely expensive) but to my anger it only makes the Japanese Castle level have a high alert instead of a cautious one. I just remember doing a carnage in the building, the damn tracer bullets traveled at something like 100 miles or so, very slow stuff that could be avoided by sidestepping even when the projectile was still in the air but the ninjas could do it too, and they jumped at you with swords.

>>7657
It's going to be a big chart by the looks of it, when i sell all the guard loot i made in Kingdom Come i will do it ASAP.

>>7667
It's one of the things i loved about the Hitman games, levels tried to have the NPCs and some details match the origin, had tons of errors at times but it worked overall. The jaded as hell bellboys in the Budapest Hotel still crack me up, same with the sexually-deviant pothead germans/dutch bikers in Rotterdam.
>>7655
Sniper Elite 1 is the only game in the series I'd actually consider a 'real' stealth/sniper game. It's fun in a budget sort of way. Ghost Warrior I've never tried.
>>7637
Yeh there was something off about the AI for sure.
>>7631
I know the feeling. Just treat it as an action level.
>>7667
>I really like the multi-language voice acting in Silent Assassin, by the way. Really gives it its charm.
It's great when games do that. At least one of the SC games did it too, was it maybe toggleable in Chaos Theory? Crysis also had it but only on max difficulty which makes the ayy segments later on a fucking slog.
>>7668
>same with the sexually-deviant pothead germans/dutch bikers in Rotterdam.
That's just baseline for germans and dutch.
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>>7663
Not got around to TDM yet. Someone back on 8/v/ or was it /vg/? one of them anyway did make picrelated though. Might as well post the Thief 1 and 2 charts as well.
Is third person inherently lazier for stealth than first person? The the binaural audio in Thief combined with the changing surfaces might not give as much positional awareness as an omnipotent camera, but it’s still the most sophisticated system stealth games have put in place, which is a rather depressing thing to say.
>>8252
Third person lets you peak around corners far too easily in my opinion. Some games which don't tend to use corridors/close up stealth too much, like styx, can get away with it. Also given that modern stealth games reliably give you the ability to magicvision through fucking walls I guess it's irrelevant.
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>>7152 >>7355 Should I actually buy the new Hitman games? I'm not sure how their online component works. It's one of the few series that I would consider spending something on, but is the game improved versus a pirated version?
>>8734 Whatever you do, don't buy Hitman 2. It has six locations. It's a good game but torrent it.
>>8734 Hitman 2 has ported all of Hitman's levels, so there's no reason to buy the first one. There are twelve locations in the standard edition and I think three or four DLC missions. Progression is unfortunately tied to online meaning that you won't unlock any new items not that any of the levels are restricted, but I'm pretty sure you can play it offline with all the items if you have a save file. Just know that it might be overwritten with your online profile. As for the online components, there are leaderboards, a custom mission maker that has zero tools, timed events, a competitive gamemode, and a cooperative sniper mode. I put a lot of time into Hitman, so I was pretty burnt out with Hitman 2, but you'll have fun. The first mission of Hitman 2 is free, so try it out.
>>8734 Hitman 2 7 includes all the content fro, the game before. Pirating it will lock you out of the online-bullshit-only mode unlocks but you should on no account support their jewish practices by paying.
>>8750 If you could only buy the missions you wanted, but no. You have to buy the DLC in order to be able to buy the DLC. It's the most retarded sales strategy I've ever seen. Aside from the lack of ratings at the end like Blood Money, the games is a pretty good Hitman.
>>8870 >>8750 >>8765 >You have to buy the DLC in order to be able to buy the DLC >lock you out of the online-bullshit-only mode unlocks >no reason to buy the first one... Progression is unfortunately tied to online meaning that you won't unlock >leaderboards, a custom mission maker that has zero tools, timed events, a competitive gamemode, and a cooperative sniper mode >lack of ratings at the end Not that anon but that sounds like cancer, not mentioning it's a soft-reboot ala Bond which might also grind a lot of gears for the plotfags. Have we reached that comfortably numb point?
>>8871 The business model is utter cancer yes. The gameplay is fine but unlike how earlier games give you an open little area and a few designed systems you can fuck with it's more like the game funneling you down one of a large number of completely preordained paths. How obnoxious this is depends on the mission. >plotfags Hitman has never hugely been about plot but such lore as it had was nicely wrapped up with BM. Absolution's story bullshit gets in the way and 6 & 7's story can be safely ignored thankfully. I wouldn't say it's quite bond tier yet.
>>8871 It's business model would best be described as one step forward two steps back. On one hand, there's a lot of support and new free content coming out for the game and you get to play all of Hitman's levels in the new game, but on the other hand the online component of the game is significant even though it adds very little and the game will make you know there's content that you haven't paid for yet. Mechanically speaking, it's the best Hitman and there is very little that Blood Money does better. Map design is great, there are many gameplay customization options making it accessible for any sort of player, but there certainly are issues. For example, the fiber wire is pointless once you get a concealable knife because the AI ignore blood. It was said that they wanted to hold off on this feature until they introduce a way to clean blood, but this is a decision I tend to disagree with. There's a rating system at the end of it, but I believe that score and ranking are two different things. One person might have a higher score with a lower ranking because they were noticed whereas another person who played it stealthily gets a lower score but a higher ranking as they took all day to set up and manipulate the AI timers. Don't trust me on this, I never payed any attention to ratings.
>>8884 >>8878 >because the AI ignore blood I suppose that's one of the things that Blood Money does better. And taking into account the almost inhuman force 47 has at some points i wonder why he can't snap necks in gameplay like he does in cutscenes >I wouldn't say it's quite bond tier yet. His backstory seems to be erased which means the official book invalidated, Diana retconned to hell and back, he was visually rejuvenated 20 years which retcons the first and fourth game. Come on now. Still, it sounds like it needs to be checked out at least once, thanks for the info.
>>8878 >Hitman has never hugely been about plot C47 had an amazing story though. Not so much the latter games where it was pretty much tacked on.
>>8903 I hope they remake Codename 47. I’d want it to be kind the same kind of open world as Deus Ex. You’re given a small portion but highly detailed section of a city like Hong Kong and the first part would just be all preparation before you even go in.
>>8878 >it's more like the game funneling you down one of a large number of completely preordained paths. Which wouldn't be so bad if you were left to explore on your own and figure out what to do, instead of having a giant blinking quest marker. I know you can technically turn it off but the levels are designed around having quest markers on.
>>7173 What do I do if I already played all of those? The ones I can play anyway.
>>8894 >>8903 Hitman's plot/lore post C47 which is a game you'd nowadays mostly want to play to see the series' and character's origins has always existed but as an entirely optional bit of the game. You can choose to enjoy it or you can choose to ignore it entirely. >>8918 >I hope they remake Codename 47. Contracts did remake some of the more popular C47 levels. A full remake would be interesting but in this day and age would just be DLC cancer. >>8951 Make your own stealth game. >>8935 >I know you can technically turn it off but the levels are designed around having quest markers on. For the last ~6 or so years this has consistently been the case with these shitty reboots/sequels: you can turn off the shitty handholding and they include that in the marketing to try and appeal to oldfags but in practice the game is so built around those features it's impossible for a first time player to do without them: the game just doesn't contain the information needed without trial-and-erroring it.
I installed The Dark Mod because I just couldn't get over TDP's level design and damn is it good. It should really be on the stealth game list because it's better than Thief in many ways and is completely free. >>7173 I wouldn't consider MGS or MGS2 to be stealth games. They're stealth/action.
>>8951 Then you have much more credentials and will power than me. Between Kingdom Come, movies, social meetings and the /vgmg/ thread i just haven't got the balls to play the games i haven't but i got a bunch of images to manage to create the template for the charts. My goal was to write some small reviews and read others by anons to try and make a neutral composite from the opinions of all of us. For the cool one that is, for the historical one it will be just general info, that's a secondary one creating context for the cool chart. >>8985 >They're stealth/action. They can be completed without killing and they somewhat want you to play it like a ghost, i wouldn't like to touch those games in the charts due to their hellbent fans but they are technically good enough to be included if Riddick and Tenchu are to be included. At least for the VR missions alone.
>>8985 The big letdown of TDM is the inferior sound tech, at least in my experience. You may not notice this if you didn't mess around with OpenAL for TDP/Thief Gold if you didn't you missed out.
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How bad is Thief 2014? About the only thing that I like from it are the animations and some of the gameplay additions, but the level design looks like a downgrade in every way.
>>9042 Never played it but anons have said the whole 'you can turn off easymode/eagle vision etc' is the typical bullshit where the game lacks a way to provide you with information critical to a first playthrough. Also the story and world seem to have been raped into a poor man's Dishonored.
>>7547 >lewd stealth game Closest I can think of https://invidio.us/watch?v=buRrdnZTMVA
>>9042 It's terrible unless you want to look at desk drawers for literally a fifth of the game time. Also I swear the AI was better in DS
>>9109 What a shame. I don’t get why companies waste time developing bad products. It’s such a bother.
>>9114 >I don’t get why Money laundering and/or focus groups/actual market having terrible taste. Although plenty of products are also bad due to being hastily done by a large amount of uncoordinated and inexperienced people. But a non-shiteating market would purge said groups over time.
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>decide to play scct >character moves on its own without me touching the keyboard wtf is going on? is my computer possessed by angry machine ghosts?
>>9124 Most likely a joystick problem, either virtual or physical but I had the same problem and it went away once I turned off vJoy and unplugged my flight pedals.
>>9125 That did the trick. Weird, never had problems with this before.
>>9124 Man, I'd be down to play some coop with you if we could get that working. I think you have to create a virtual LAN using something like RadminVPN. We need to figure that out.
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>>9133 scct coop is one of the raddest things in the universe too bad its impossible to find people to play with
>>9126 It's a fairly common issue with mutiplats. Always try unplugging the joystick or controller when you get unexpected movement in a game like this. By the way CT has variable movement speed. On PC this is controlled by the mousewheel by default. >>9142 The problem with Chaos Theory's coop is it's most fun played with someone of about equal skill level an experience. If it's your first time you don't' want someone who's way better and has all the levels memorised.
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>>9161 Well, I know all the levels by heart. You are right though. Whenever I play it with people they fucking suck. I had a good irl friend to play this with but he got a girlfriend and immediately stopped playing video games.
>>9165 There were never any custom coop levels either as far as I can tell. It should be possible since fags made them for Spies v Mercs.
>>9169 There is an editor among the gamefiles >ChaosTheory_Editor.exe It's however placed in the versus game files. Probably only works for that game mode.
>no one wants to coop scct Guess I'll play single player again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>9284 Set up a virtual LAN and I'll join, negro.
>>9287 Are you from the EU or the US? How can I contact you? Do you have steam?
>>9359 US. Don't have Steam or anything, though, but I browse here often enough. We can't run the coop game through that anyways. We need a virtual LAN. There was a service called Evolve that allowed for this sort of thing, but that was shut down about a year ago. We need to find a new service or just use something like RadminVPN.
>>9363 i was suggesting steam merely to coordinate as its the most common platform regarding the vpn im looking into zerotier
>>7472 >>7509 >Suffers more from having very specific patterns with how to deal with certain missions, making it feel more of a puzzle game than a stealth game. This is mostly true for the first game. At the same time the levels can get fucking massive, id est "7 hours per map even before the mid way mark" so even when it is true it doesnt feel like it, this is much less the case in the second. Commandos is a seriously underrated game and I almost never see it discussed.
>>9455 I've seen anons bring it up now and then but yeh most of the world seems to have forgotten commandos exists. There have been a few indie games trying to revive the sub-genre recently but no idea if they're any good.
>>9459 commandos does feel more like a puzzle game tho also commandos 2 remastered is out and its shit
>>9490 You fucking liar, It's not out! But it looks like shit
>>9852 >You fucking liar, It's not out! It's 2019 2020 anon, releasing games when they're finished is sexist/racist/ablist/transphobic against indie devs. All games must be released for full price when half finished and you should be thankful they get patched at all entitled gamerscum.
Hey stealthfags >we're revamping an old list and would appreciate input, particularly on the stealth genre. Stop by if you have the time and make a suggestion. >>9633
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Is Spies vs Mercs a good game mode or do people pretend that it's good? I remember playing it for gamenight and being pretty disappointed, and the fact that the spiritual successor only raised $2000 of the $100000 needed tells me that it was never popular to begin with. I've only ever played the Chaos Theory version and was dissatisfied with how they forced the smaller aspect ratio and locked it in at I think less than 30FPS. I can understand it from a competitive perspective, but it's annoying playing it casually.
>>7188 Isn't Thief Gold a better version of the original Thief?
>>15081 Thief Gold is slightly reworked in ways that some players prefer the original Thief. There's even a mod to downgrade the game.
>>15008 >$100000 for spies vs mercs clone some fags on /agdg/ can do a better job. >Is Spies vs Mercs a good game mode or do people pretend that it's good? it is an interesting concept that could be pulled off, but that spiritual successor didnt offer anything you couldnt already get in chaos theory. >>14842 whats the deal with nu hitman and why is it so bad?
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>>7547 >>7579 >Now, are there any lewd h- stealth games, preferably of the yuri kind? It exists, it is called Corrupt the Queens, it has that kind of screen whenever you finish a level, and it is otherwise dogshit. https://web.archive.org/web/20171018153158/http://sleepymaid.com/games/
>>15091 >fuck up you have to replay all the levels Jesus almighty
>>15081 Yes and no. It most notably adds: >Three new levels One so bad people often quit when the reach it. One bland. One pretty good. >Huge secret area to an existing level It's neat, no complaints here. >Reworks an existing level to fit in with the bland new level A toss up, some people hate the rework. I don't mind it so much personally. >Adds to a few levels unkillable fire-entity that drops fire arrows on temporary-death This is to prevent you fucking yourself over by running out of fire arrows. They're not particularly annoying since their invincibility is more running away and coming back a long time later but they never felt that integrated to me. Then again they only show up twice. There are also other little fixes and a short level that shows you some stuff from during development. I'd say Gold is generally better overall, as long as you remember to keep the skip level cheat on hand for Thieves' Guild. It's tolerable once you're used to the game but it kills first time playthroughs.
>>15104 >one so bad I don't get why people really dislike Thieves Guild that much. It's one hell of an atmospheric level, with a bit of challenge(you'd think Thieves would in fact hide their shit better like behind a tapestry) and the soundtrack kicking in 50 seconds in after you're in the shit was great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nJ09SjKVgI I'd put it low in my favorite levels but that's because I don't think anything can top Down in the Bonehoard.
>>15103 If it's too hard for you, you can always download it and just view the images.
>>15111 It's the backtracking through samey brown/grey tunnels that makes it shit. Also not a big fan of the casino-entrance which forces you down a pretty linear method to get past. Mostly the tunnels though. As I said it's fine after you've done the game a few times, and I always advise fags to try playing it for themselves before judging but to remember they've got the skip level cheat at hand rather than quit the game entirely. >I'd put it low in my favorite levels but that's because I don't think anything can top Down in the Bonehoard. I assume you mean that you liked Down in the Bonehoard and fair enough, good level. Gold actually changed the texturing on that level to some degree hurting the atmosphere a bit to aid in fags getting lost, something I didn't think was a problem anyway in TDP.
>>7547 You get the occasional RPGMaker shit from the Japanese, but that's almost entirely of the "stay out of the four boxes in front of this sprite or your dude gets reverse raped" variety. Lewd third person shooters are currently in their infancy; lewd 2.5D platformers are rare but exist--lewd action games of ANY kind are tough for devs and stealth just isn't a popular enough genre at this time to have ballooned into porn yet. Hell, I've seen a lewd 3D card battler already.
>>15136 I guess I can see it. I admit a big reason as why I like the level is the drum snare part of the soundtrack. It always seemed to play at just the right part to get me in the mood, and robbing thieves is something I like. >>15138 >your dude gets reverse raped >your dude Wow, what am I, gay? Yuri rape or bust My dream h-game would be a lewd spin on Arkham Asylum. Make everyone but you a hot chick, combat sections against mooks are elaborate orgies while boss battles are stamina and endurance bone sessions and the game over screens have Batman getting reverse raped/gangbanged by the goons or boss. But I digress.
>>15199 It's the Japanese: your dude usually has the build of a teenage girl and the things raping him are /monster/ wet dreams. You get the occasional game like Naked Order where an exhibitionist tries to do her thing, but I can't remember if any of those are really stealth. The two or three third person action porn games from the Japanese that I vaguely recall were advertised as if they were the second coming but ended up being generic and bad character-action-like games. It's really about what you would expect: even in this day of things like Unity indie 3D action games of any flavor are still pretty rare.
>>15199 >My dream h-game would 2D platformer were you can explore dungeons while using different monstergirls as mounts and its 100% vanilla
>>15104 Didn't they make the zombie levels way easier? That was one massive complaint about Gold I was always seeing. Shit like "Down in the Bonehoard" being really watered down.
>>15232 Good question. I think there was a change with regards to the sword, maybe the overhead charged swing + backstab combo was more effective in Gold? That or they stay down more reliably once knocked out. I've never been able to confirm if that's just because people were way more used to them by the time they got to Gold though, or something like the AI actually being consistent. It'd be a good thing for someone to do side-by-side webms of.
Not sure if I should ask this in the dead Deus Ex thread or here: Did anyone ever get any use of the tranq gun for stealth in Deus Ex? I remember it was my crutch in my first playthrough. If you maxed out the gun, had max pistol and landed a headshot the target would run 2 feet before passing out. Last time I tried it out though they just started blasting at me letting everyone know where I was before collapsing.
>>15266 If you mean the crossbow then yes, I've got some use out of it. Just make sure they don't see you when you fire it and combine it with other methods if you have to.
>>15272 On my first playthrough I got away with headshotting people, but ducking behind a box before the dart actually hit them. It didn't seem to work the second time around, though.
I don't get the hate for Metal Gear Solid. I mean for what it's worth, it was creative, with bosses like Psycho Mantis and the easter eggs. Unless this is the scenario where it's about the fanbase?
>>15295 >I don't get the hate for Metal Gear Solid there is none
>>15295 My only complaint is how the story is told in the games. It could be done so much better in a way that does not involve taking control away from you so you can watch a cutscene or hear a codex call. And while I don't think the writing is bad it genuinely feels at times like the writer just wants to ramble about whatever he feels like
>>15295 Nobody said anything about hating it, just that it doesn't really belong in the stealth genre.
>>15295 It gets lumped into the stealth genre a lot even though the gameplay isn't really stealth. It's fanbase, while not all bad, has some serious cancer. Put the two together and you get a lot of retards derailing stealth threads over it, at least on most of the internet.
>>15309 I'm curious why you and another anon say it's not stealth. When I played it many years ago I remember a large part of the game about not being detected, which I was horrible at. I don't have any skin in the game for the definition of a genre, just wondering in what ways it differs from your definition of stealth genre.
>>15266 >>15273 DX has wonky hitboxes so you might be fucking up the headshots even if it looks like they should work. There's a knack to it that's not easy to explain. Another thing people do wrong is melee sneak attacks, you need to aim at the lower back and not anywhere else.
>>15295 I don't think that many people hate the series as a whole, from what I've seen most will have a problem with a particular game (ex. MGS3's fucked up camera, TTS with its completely batshit cutscenes and the MGS2 gameplay being shoved into MGS1 making it piss easy, MGSV being incomplete and a letdown). The fandom is cancerous like any other fandom, but it's far from the worst, and from what Ican tell most of the hate in that regard is because of kojima cockriders, who are just as pretentious and up their own asses as their nipfaggot idol. Also, as has been said dozens of times already, it's not really a stealth game.
>>15421 >MGS3's fucked up camera are you retarded?
>>9042 The dev team had no idea what Thief was about, vid related. >>15104 I've never had problems with Thieves Guild. Once you get through the casino, it's pretty easy to isolate and blackjack everyone.
>>15309 >It gets lumped into the stealth genre a lot even though the gameplay isn't really stealth. If I see another brainlet state that MGS isn't stealth I'm gonna smack what little brain you have left out
>>16079 >MGS >stealth game
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>>16079 >shoot everything with a tranqgun then walking through a corridor to the next cutscene is stealth
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>>9042 It's the equivalent of what DmC was to DMC; a reboot/sequel (which it won't tell you until near the end of the game, in the form of you stealing real Garret's mechanical eye) that spits on the legacy of the old games. Difference is that the devs of Th4if weren't as blatant and vocal about their hatred of the old games or their fans. It took everything that is wrong with FPS gaming (and gaming in general), and added them to a game that never needed it to stand out (for lack of a better term). It tries to be like the old games, but ultimately falls flat and ends up being a worse deadly shadows (which was already considered the black sheep of the franchise, but at least it managed to keep some semblance of the old games). In fact, the game is like a carbon copy combination of Deadly Shadows and Dishonored (right down to the story in regards to Dishonored). The sound design was shit, the levels were uninspired and very linear (even locking you out from going back at certain points), completely copy/pasting a level from DS (the shalebridge cradle), constant mini scenes of nuGarret doing something taking control away, Poor AI and enemy variety, unnecessary magic powerups, making abilities essential in older games more context based (no more jumping and mantling or rope arrows on any wooden surface. Now its swooping, highlighted environmental items to tell normalfags where they need to use certain items, and "press button to do shit" prompts), and overall a shitty story with even shittier characters that leaves a stain on an otherwise good franchise. The only parts that felt like the original Thief games were the side missions that you could always repeat if you were low on cash, as they were their own seperate missions disconnected from the main story and were smaller versions of how Thief 1 and 2 map layouts would be (or it felt smaller since you had to deal with CONTEXTUAL MANTLING AND ROPE ARROWS). My rant aside, if you want more detailed reasons why, watch the vid "Thief vs. AAA gaming". I'd post a webm of it, but the filesize is about 450MB.
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>>16118 Thief Kart when?
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>>16105 >shooting everything instead of sneaking past You could theoretically kill everything in Thief as well but that doesn't make it not a stealth game
>>16121 >kill tranq doesnt kill nigra, it allows you to walkthrough the entire game free of consequence on any difficulty, except for MGS1 where you can walk past everything without even using the socom
>>16123 So MGS1 is stealth right
>>16123 >allows you to walkthrough the entire game free of consequence on any difficulty As opposed to games like Chaos Theory where knocked out guards never wake up?
>>16128 >forced gunfights and bossbattles 1v1ing with tanks and hind-d is not stealth >>16129 >muh chaos theory
>>16133 muh almost any stealth game with a non-lethal option The only meaningful difference between MGS and other stealth games is the frequency of its action sequences, not their existence.
>>16133 Uh oh, he said "muh", guess that invalidates the contradiction he pointed out.
>>16135 >>16136 >defending MGS this hard How much is kojimbo paying you?
>>16137 Not enough. He gave me a copy of his new walking sim instead of joosten feet pics.
>>16137 I'm not defending MGS, I'm making fun of you for being a mongoloid who can't adequately put his thoughts and opinions into words and just posts "muh" as if that's supposed to mean anything to anyone who isn't an idiot.
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>>16121 >You could theoretically kill everything in Thief as well but that doesn't make it not a stealth game Objectively false unless you're playing on easy. Medium you can't kill civilians, hard you can't kill anything except for monsters.
>>16135 >The only meaningful difference between MGS and other stealth games is the frequency of its action sequences, not their existence. You also get a radar that tells you where every single enemy is.
>>16133 Well obviously not the entire game is stealth. But to me it felt like a large portion of it was a stealth game. I can understand why someone who is passionate about the genre would have a deeper understanding of it though.
>>16180 That's a good point although I seem to remember the radar being disabled in higher difficulties, at least for MGS1.
>>16190 >But to me it felt like a large portion of it was a stealth game It doesnt matter what you feel, it is a fact that 90% of the game has nothing to do with stealth >passionate about the genre I just want good stealth games, guess I have to make my own if I dont want casualshit. >>16192 It gets disabled on anything above normal, then it became equipment in latergames with that vibrator replacing it untill the shitty ring in MGS4/PW
>>16176 grr tbh
>>16118 >Th4if The leetspeek they wanted to go with was even dumber, actually: Thi4f. I respect you for remembering it, though. >>16176 What year do you think it is?
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>>15090 >whats the deal with nu hitman and why is it so bad?
>>16178 Easy's still a difficulty offered, so it still counts. I didn't even mention Euro Extreme which gives you a game over if you ever break stealth, which is shit not even Thief does. Also I probably should have said knocked out, which is not only possible but encouraged. >>16194 >it is a fact that 90% of the game has nothing to do with stealth Bullshit, if you cut out the cutscenes of an average playthrough of the good MGS's it'll be more stealth than action.
>>16248 > I didn't even mention Euro Extreme which gives you a game over if you ever break stealth, which is shit not even Thief does. Confirmed for not playing the game.
>>16248 if you cut out the cutscenes you still have more codec calls than actual gameplay >euro extreme >break stealth You only get game over if you get spotted, you can throw grenades around or shoot niggers, you would know this if you were european and not some inferior NTSC mutt
>>16256 You could get spotted in Thief plenty, fuck are you talking about? >confirmed for Confirmed for cuckchan garbage >>16305 >You only get game over if you get spotted >the entire point of stealth
>>16313 >>You only get game over if you get spotted >>the entire point of stealth I disagree. A fun part of stealth games, that an unfortunate amount of people avoid through savescumming is getting detected and getting the fuck out of there without dying.
>>16129 >As opposed to games like Chaos Theory where knocked out guards never wake up? Technically they can be woken up by other guards.
>>16178 They're actually called Normal, Hard and Expert but otherwise true. >>16248 >I didn't even mention Euro Extreme which gives you a game over if you ever break stealth, which is shit not even Thief does. Instant game over on being spotted is terrible game design. It's acceptable for the occasional mission or sub-part of a mission where it makes thematic sense but otherwise it's shit.
>>16313 Stealth isnt just about not being spotted its about leaving no trace you dumb nigger and thats why tranqing everything so you can get to the next cutscene is NOT stealth.
>>16315 I agree with you: being able to adapt and contain an otherwise fucked situation that's gonna send the run down the shitter is part of the fun. However, it is also true that I do want to be able to fully stealth through a mission without having to rely on savescumming or trial and error memorising paths to the objective. That's just boring. And that's the exact reason why the perfect stealth game just doesn't exist yet, and none of the games that are out come even close to realising the full potential. And all this makes me very sad.
>>16315 It'd be an interesting experiment for someone to try to make a pseudorealistic Ironman stealth game. Instead of "game over try again" when the enemy knows you're around, you instead have to get out alive. If you do, you've failed that mission (mission chain?) for that character and don't get another chance at it. If you don't escape, the character gets wiped or, at best, has to be rescued by another character. Naturally you'd have to do at least some anti-scumming tricks like removing the save during the mission, but it'd be sorta up to the dev how hard they wanted to try to make it to game the system. For all the games out there with strict difficulty, it's not hard to imagine why nobody's tried this kind of thing yet--although given just how many games are made these days, I wouldn't be surprised if some anon can contradict me on that.
>>16325 >>16323 why not just make a stealth game about sneaking around some big area like a ship, military base, etc but make it permadeath with no saves?
>>16325 Jagged Alliance 2 actually does what you say and, though it's not a stealth game per se, it does have some stealth mechanics.
>>16320 >thats why tranqing everything so you can get to the next cutscene is NOT stealth So don’t do that?
>>16328 >So don’t do that? No.
The really funny part is beating most of MGS2 by rolling into every guard in your way and leaving the map before they can figure out what to do. At least the sequels have footstep noise.
>>16333 in MGS3 you can silence your footsteps completely if you are holding a grenade
>>16320 >it's not a stealth game unless you Supreme Ghost That sounds like a fun challenge, applying the same rules to MGS and seeing how far you get.
>>16313 >You could get spotted in Thief plenty, fuck are you talking about? <He doesn't know about the missions in Thief 2 where if a guard even hears you you fail <He doesn't know about the FailOnSeen, FailOnKO, and FailOnKill flags in the user.cfg
>>16323 It only exists in multiplayer games where you can try to sneak an objective while the enemy team is distracted or something similar. Even then those experiences are very few and far between.
>>16340 Only played Thief Gold so far and that didn’t force it >user.cfg So you’re admitting that in-game it doesn’t force you to ghost most of the time unless you decide to? >>16330 Then fuck off. Being able to knock out people in a stealth game doesn’t invalidate the stealth portion.
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>>16347 >Being able to knock out people in a stealth game doesn’t invalidate the stealth portion. Yes, yes it does, MGS2 is the only "stealth" game that tries to make it so you cant just knock out everything, if you knock out or kill the goons with radios a person will always be sent to check on them as it should be, because knocking out 10+ people in a tanker only populated by soldiers without the rest of the place going on lockdown or people checking for sneakers is fucking stupid. Untill stealth games become more than just run past a goy when he isnt looking at you then they wont be revived. Knocking people out in hitman completely negates the stealth portion, cant make it look like an accident when you leave obvious signs that someone purposefully made the accident.
>>16347 >So you’re admitting that in-game it doesn’t force you to ghost most of the time unless you decide to? You just admitted that in-game MGS1 doesn't force you to semi-ghost unless you decide to play on Euro Extreme. As opposed to Thief 2 where on ANY settings there are levels you are forced to ghost. I.E. can't be seen, heard or knock anyone out on. And those flags toggle it on for all levels. Those flags aren't a mod you have to download. It's a setting built in the game you can set. Unless you want to nitpick that you need to adjust it in the user.cfg file like this isn't a common thing for early 2000s PC games. >>16354 Dude is just at the point where he's trying to hunt for any little thing to gain an edge. Watch as he tries to somehow argue that a feature programmed in a game isn't valid, because he's too retarded to adjust the user.cfg file. Probably doesn't realize the user.cfg in 99% of games is literally just the options menu settings saved to a file.
>>16354 >Yes, yes it does, MGS2 is the only "stealth" game that tries to make it so you cant just knock out everything It's not the only game: NOLF 2 also tried to counter it by infinitely respawning certain guards. It was extremely obnoxious. Granted you might not count NOLF 2 as a stealth game but it's at least as much of one as MGS2.
>>16362 NOLF2 sucks and its less stealth than the original game which was niggertits hard with many levels failing you if you get spotted or if a guard raised the alarm, the buggy guards made the game even harder than it already was.
>>16365 NOLF2 is inferior to NOLF yes. I was just saying that it also tried to prevent you simply knocking out everyone in the level.
>>16368 too bad they dont get radios or have any indication that they do spawn back
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>>16356 Not talking about Thief 2, I'm talking about the series in general. There are more levels where you're not forced to ghost than you are forced to. >Watch as he tries to somehow argue that a feature programmed in a game isn't valid, because he's too retarded to adjust the user.cfg file And the devs aren't for making it editable from the in-game options menu? Quit making excuses for your shitty arbitrary definition of what a stealth game must be. >>16354 >Yes, yes it does Then by your logic normally played Thief isn't a stealth game.
>>16398 Beat it goober, why dont you stealth yourself out of this thread?
>>16399 I can't, according to you fighting means stealth doesn't exist :^)
>>16400 You wont put up a fight anyway beta male, now beat it yid
>>16401 >2006 internet tough guy talk Fuck off back to voat kike, your e-peen is meaningless here.
>>16403 >instantly starts talking about dicks gb2 >>>/tv/
>>16405 >muh /tv/ boogeyman >>>/8kun/
>>16398 >Not talking about Thief 2, I'm talking about the series in general. The only 2 games that matter is 1 and 2. 3 is mediocre and 4 is an absolute abomination of a game. The ironic thing is the worst game in the series actually has options to force ghosting similar to what you're talking about. >And the devs aren't for making it editable from the in-game options menu? The problem here is you're approaching a PC game with a console mentality. It's like saying the dev commentary level, which can only be accessed by editing the user.cfg, isn't an easter egg. Before 2005 PC games where a completely different animal, after that they essentially became console games on beefier hardware. >Quit making excuses for your shitty arbitrary definition of what a stealth game must be. I didn't even push a definition for what stealth is. I'm just pointing out how full of shit everything you're saying is starting here >>16178 The only thing I've been pointing out is your complete lack of knowledge about Thief.
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>>16409 It really is absolution: lite. >FRAPS The fug? use OBS nigger
it might just be outdated ARMA with ARMA ai but this game has some fantastic stealth missions that feel very tense, not knowing if the BMP you're crawling towards to satchel charge is going to notice you and end 20min worth of effort. It's a relief stealth vidya wise to be easily noticed when you're standing up and running around, even in shadows at a distance, it makes good movement and awareness vital

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